2024: Less snow than normal

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And I am assuming that the calculations are weighted by area, so that many "thermometers" in one particular square mile do not outweigh a single "thermometer" in a different square mile. And probably more esoteric adjustments as well.

That's exactly what happens. Further, they aren't comparing average temperatures in different locations to each other, they are comparing the deviation from the recorded historical average at a given location and averaging that anomaly with the anomalies from other locations.
 
That's exactly what happens. Further, they aren't comparing average temperatures in different locations to each other, they are comparing the deviation from the recorded historical average at a given location and averaging that anomaly with the anomalies from other locations.
Excellent summary. Another term used for anomalies is departures.
 
That's exactly what happens. Further, they aren't comparing average temperatures in different locations to each other, they are comparing the deviation from the recorded historical average at a given location and averaging that anomaly with the anomalies from other locations.
For global average temperature you can do the math either by averaging the anomalies, or by computing the global average temperatures and computing the running difference directly. If the results differ you then check why. But the former method gives local results as well which are also useful.

TomK, the rules of science require you, as the person claiming the mainstream is wrong, to do the work of showing how and why. Merely casting apples and oranges at us is not good enough, although if you did cast actual apples and oranges I would be less hungry. They compare well as nice edible fruits.
 
Nobody take the bait, please.

And I thought that your post of Feb 7th was bait that I had risen to. Silly me.


No, you should not agree with TomK’s take on global temperature records. We are taught how to calculate averages (means) in the fifth or sixth grade. In review for those whom have forgotten those math classes, an average (mean) is determined by summing all values and dividing the sum by the total number of values.

If I have 4 pots of water, one of which is 100 degrees C, and the other three are 0 degrees C, that will make the average a fairly comfortable 25 degrees C (or did I screw that up?) Sorry, I'm still not going to to plunge my and into a random pot, despite the average of the temperature of the water in the pots being a comfortable 25 degrees C. Thanks for making my point for me.

Just don’t try to make a complaint.

Complaints? That's next door. It's being hit on the head lessons in here.

Thanks for teeing that one up for me. The check is in the mail. 😂


TomK, the rules of science require you, as the person claiming the mainstream is wrong, to do the work of showing how and why.

I must have missed class that day. As far as I know, the only thing that science requires of me is that I die someday. And I'm going to fight that tooth and nail as well.

I don't claim to be a scientist, or to be doing science here. I have no Phd. While my humble degree does have "Science" in the title, and the field of study also has "Science" in it, and it prepared me for a respectable but otherwise unremarkable career in the field, I can't say that I've done any science since I was working for that degree, and that was only to learn how, not to do anything that would contribute to anything.

I'm just stating my opinions, based on what I read, a reasonably well-tuned BS detector, some common sense, and some years of practical experience. Unlike some others, I won't demand that you embrace my opinions, you are free to think for yourself. I think there are some folks who post here who do actual science, and I like to think I respect what they do. But that doesn't mean that I can't have a different view.

These are casual conversations. Don't take any of it too seriously. I try to inject a little humor when the opportunity presents itself. I try not to take myself, or any of this too seriously. It is only when someone says I must think a certain way that I get my back up.

TomK

No animals were harmed in the creation of this post.
 
That's a lot of snow. I didn't see any reports on the TV of towns getting that much. Which town do you live in?
I was referring to VT (where the link was referencing). In Southern NH, I'd say 8-10 with some mix.
 
https://snowbrains.com/this-may-be-...son-in-almost-20-years-it-just-keeps-snowing/

That was written before the 15+ received yesterday.

Already a top-ten year for snow totals in some areas.... I've got a solid 3' base in Southern NH and no sign of it going anywhere anytime soon...
I hope we get a ton of snow this year. It's good for the aquifers and it's fun to hike on.

But this is how dire things are: According to that link, Killington, VT has received 315 inches of snow so far. The average is 360. Killington receives an average of 46 inches of snow in the month of March.

360 - 315 = 45.

Obviously we are only halfway through February (although the ten-day forecast is for two more inches), while this may be the best year in the last twenty, it would still only be historically average.

Brian
 
I hope we get a ton of snow this year. It's good for the aquifers and it's fun to hike on.

But this is how dire things are: According to that link, Killington, VT has received 315 inches of snow so far. The average is 360. Killington receives an average of 46 inches of snow in the month of March.

360 - 315 = 45.

Obviously we are only halfway through February (although the ten-day forecast is for two more inches), while this may be the best year in the last twenty, it would still only be historically average.

Brian
Agree. What is won't be is decidedly less snow than normal ;-)
 
And I thought that your post of Feb 7th was bait that I had risen to. Silly me.




If I have 4 pots of water, one of which is 100 degrees C, and the other three are 0 degrees C, that will make the average a fairly comfortable 25 degrees C (or did I screw that up?) Sorry, I'm still not going to to plunge my and into a random pot, despite the average of the temperature of the water in the pots being a comfortable 25 degrees C. Thanks for making my point for me.



Complaints? That's next door. It's being hit on the head lessons in here.

Thanks for teeing that one up for me. The check is in the mail. 😂




I must have missed class that day. As far as I know, the only thing that science requires of me is that I die someday. And I'm going to fight that tooth and nail as well.

I don't claim to be a scientist, or to be doing science here. I have no Phd. While my humble degree does have "Science" in the title, and the field of study also has "Science" in it, and it prepared me for a respectable but otherwise unremarkable career in the field, I can't say that I've done any science since I was working for that degree, and that was only to learn how, not to do anything that would contribute to anything.

I'm just stating my opinions, based on what I read, a reasonably well-tuned BS detector, some common sense, and some years of practical experience. Unlike some others, I won't demand that you embrace my opinions, you are free to think for yourself. I think there are some folks who post here who do actual science, and I like to think I respect what they do. But that doesn't mean that I can't have a different view.

These are casual conversations. Don't take any of it too seriously. I try to inject a little humor when the opportunity presents itself. I try not to take myself, or any of this too seriously. It is only when someone says I must think a certain way that I get my back up.

TomK

No animals were harmed in the creation of this post.
Well said. Demeaning personal attacks by the self appointed elite only lead to their attempts of ostracism.
 
Oh? I think we will have to wait and see on that one.
Of course, hard to predict. Even harder to predict in November vs. February. Spot checking a few VT ski areas:

Jay Peak Average 335"; currently with 331"
Bolton Valley 300"; currently with 266"
Smuggler's Notch 280"; currently with 279"
Stowe 275"; currently with 250"
Sugarbush 262"; 222"
Mad River 250"; 209"
Killington 250"; 193"

Quite a range overall, some are running at 50% of snow totals for the year so far when I looked at them all, some will beat their average by the end of this week.

[I should add, I am not disagreeing with the original premise. After snowblowing and/or shoveling a dozen times so far in 2025 alone I couldn't help but to think of this thread......]
 
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Now we a basing our content for snowfall for correct amounts based on info surfed from ski areas.I would challenge their accuracies as the ski areas have been know for padding snowfall amounts for decades. The OP cited The New York Times which is to be known for bias fead info. Other than the citing of one member to The National Weather Service there are leaks in the hull. Let’s all play by the rules set out for us by those who adorn us with it.
 
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If I have 4 pots of water, one of which is 100 degrees C, and the other three are 0 degrees C, that will make the average a fairly comfortable 25 degrees C (or did I screw that up?) Sorry, I'm still not going to to plunge my and into a random pot, despite the average of the temperature of the water in the pots being a comfortable 25 degrees C. Thanks for making my point for me.
Your point is still quite murky.

And I thought that your post of Feb 7th was bait that I had
I must have missed class that day. As far as I know, the only thing that science requires of me is that I die someday. And I'm going to fight that tooth and nail as well.
When I was in school that was not taught either. I only recently read that exact formalization, recognizing it as one of those unwritten aspects of science.
You are not required to die; you will die. That is not the same.
The knowledge that all living things die vastly predates science as a method of discussing and understanding the universe.
I'm just stating my opinions, based on what I read, a reasonably well-tuned BS detector, some common sense, and some years of practical experience. Unlike some others, I won't demand that you embrace my opinions, you are free to think for yourself. I think there are some folks who post here who do actual science, and I like to think I respect what they do. But that doesn't mean that I can't have a different view.
"Common sense" is worse than useless for evaluating any interesting new science (by my personal definition of interesting). For example, how does your common sense reconcile either quantum mechanics or the particle-wave duality? Both of those are measurably true, even if they are not really new.
That said, I fail to see where climate science is violating what I think of as normal common sense. The conclusions may be frightening, but that is not the same.
These are casual conversations. Don't take any of it too seriously. I try to inject a little humor when the opportunity presents itself. I try not to take myself, or any of this too seriously. It is only when someone says I must think a certain way that I get my back up.
The style of your remarks do not lead me to believe this statement about humor. Remember that there is no way anyone on the planet can understand all of today's science, let alone all of science and all the rest of current human knowledge. To insist that you get to deny some of science and still claim science is "true" is egotistical and demeaning to all the scientists and their associates.
 
Now we a basing our content for ski areas for correct data on snow fall amounts. I would challenge their accuracies as the ski areas have been know for padding snowfall amounts for decades. The OP cited The New York Times which is to be known for bias fead info. Other than the citing of one member to The National Weather Service there are leaks in the hull. Let’s all play by the rules set out for us by those who adorn us with.
If you have better data about snowfall amounts, please share it. Note however that your claim of bias in these numbers would say that there was less snow than reported, which is in line with the original point of the OP and the title of this thread. I am not saying you are wrong about ski resorts padding data; your claim seems reasonable to me but substantiation or refutation would be good.
 
If you have better data about snowfall amounts, please share it. Note however that your claim of bias in these numbers would say that there was less snow than reported, which is in line with the original point of the OP and the title of this thread. I am not saying you are wrong about ski resorts padding data; your claim seems reasonable to me but substantiation or refutation would be good.
https://snowbrains.com/ski-area-snow-report-fact-fiction/ Ironically snowbrains was cited from another member just above. In the end I don’t think any one really knows the true answer.
 
Now we a basing our content for snowfall for correct amounts based on info surfed from ski areas.I would challenge their accuracies as the ski areas have been know for padding snowfall amounts for decades. The OP cited The New York Times which is to be known for bias fead info. Other than the citing of one member to The National Weather Service there are leaks in the hull. Let’s all play by the rules set out for us by those who adorn us with it.
Don't disagree. However, ski areas do the most reporting of snow totals so when you look for how much snow has fallen, only the ski areas come up. I could've eventually likely found something else, but I'm not doing research for a paper...just musing on the internet.

To add, it was percentages of fallen vs. a normal year, so if one assumes they pad their totals, both of the amounts (average and so far this year) would both be padded, so the number would still be relevant.
 
From a new book titled "How Technologies Are Tearing Us Apart" by Nicholas Carr comes the following quote.
"Different points of view are seen not as opportunities to learn but as provocations to attack."
It's instructive that this often contentious thread is one of the longest currently active on VFTT.
 
From a new book titled "How Technologies Are Tearing Us Apart" by Nicholas Carr comes the following quote.
"Different points of view are seen not as opportunities to learn but as provocations to attack."
It's instructive that this often contentious thread is one of the longest currently active on VFTT.
In every facet of life, in every interaction, we all have an opportunity to teach and to learn. How we go about that is up to each of us to decide on how we want to handle each of those interactions.
 
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