4 Winter Catskills on 3500 list...why these?

[bigmoose]

Just curious...
How is it that Slide, Balsam, Blackhead and Panther are the four peaks requiring winter climbs to complete the list? I notched Balsam and Panther yesterday and today and pondered that question at length. (It almost seemed like cheating...no crampons, no snowshoes, no snow...but then squalls hit, and high winds, and the ice on Panther brought me down with a painful thud. Quasi-winter, anyway....)

Anybody know the thinking behind singling out these four peaks for winter climbing? Why Blackheart instead of Black Dome? Why not Plateau? Windham High Peak?
Mark S.? Anyone?

 

[MattC]

Good question-I've pondered this myself. Slide certainly makes sense as one of the selections, being the highest peak in the range. I have no idea why the others. This would be a good question for the 3500 Club list serv-maybe someone who was been a member for a long time would know. I'd post the question myself, but the e-mail account under which I'm registered is working right now. If you want to register to the list serve, send an e-mail to:

[email protected]

BTW, it's Blackhead, not Blackheart.

Matt

 

[bigmoose]

Thanks, Matt...i have edited my egregious error...I must've lost some brain cells when I went down hard on Panther...I was damn lucky I didn't split my head open on that rock.

 

[funkyfreddy]

One reason I can think of is that they are nice mountains in different parts of the Catskills that take you through different types of terrain. The views from all of them are good, Balsam's are limited but still nice. I was glad for the winter requirement of Blackhead, it has a fantastic view, especially in winter when the air is clear and the surrounding mountains are snowcapped. Ditto for Panther...... I've climbed Slide, Blackhead, and Panther multiple times and would climb them again.

Slide and Panther are close to each other, so it's interesting that they are both winter peaks. I'll have to ask some of the "higher ups" in the 3500 club next time I see them.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

A good question that I have also wondered about, but don't know the answer. I posted the question on the 3500 Club's yahoo list server to see if anybody knows. I did search the archives over there and this is what I found:

The question was asked on Sept 8, 2001 with some discussion, and then was also discussed again beginning Aug 28, 2003. Dan Case offered the following from Bill Spangenberger (#3): "... Slide as the highest peak was obvious, and Blackhead because it was and is a difficult climb (without getting too technical) from any approach in winter, but he didn't know about the other two."

It was also suggested that Hunter may have been one of the four original required winter peaks, but was replaced by Balsam (perhaps at the request of the AMC Mountain Gate Inn in the early 1980s).​

However those dates don't align per Balsam. I became an Catskill 3500 aspirant in 1974, and a member in 1975. Balsam was a required winter peak at that time, and the 4 winter peaks were the same as now. The AMC acquired the Inn in the very late 1970s or early 1980s. But perhaps the prior owners of the Inn played a part in a requested change earlier than 1974.

My own thoughts coincide with what Matt and Freddy posted. The four do offer some variety. The requirement was intended to encourage aspirants to hike in winter. Since many might be winter hiking for the first time, the club probably did not want to choose the toughest and longest hikes. All four offer some views, although Balsam and even Slide's eastern view are becoming somewhat treed in. Of the 4 Panther would be my choice for views (but opinions will differ). Hunter would have been a good choice with the view from the fire tower. There are many other good choices. No doubt there were some interesting discussions before the 4 were chosen.

 

[Rik]

Also not mentioned is the fact that all four have marked trails which narrows the Catskill choices quite a bit.

 

[imarchant]

Good Question

I have also often pondered that question. Slide and Blackhead are great choices. The views along Giant Ledge on the way to Panther are awesome also. I was not impressed with Balsam. Balsam, Panther and Slide are are relatively close together. I wish one of the Devil's path Peaks was on the list. It would also interesting to have a required winter bushwack.

That being said, it doesn't really matter. Because of the Club's winter requirement, I have found the pleasure of winter hiking and plan on completing the W35.

 

[Jay H]

I wish one of the Devil's path Peaks was on the list. It would also interesting to have a required winter bushwack.

I think WestKill would be a nice required winter peak, it's got a trail, it's only got one little possibly tricky winter scramble below the Buck Ridge viewpoint, has an awesome view of Hunter Mtn, the firetower and the hike is comparable to the other winter peaks.

As far as a winter bushwack, that may be pushing liability issues with the club these days, not sure about the club, which would most likely err on the conservative side and I don't think that would ever fly.

I already enjoyed winter hiking before doing the 4 required winter peaks, like mentioned before, my first hike in the catskills was a winter ascent of Wittenberg.

Jay

 

[imarchant]

As far as a winter bushwack, that may be pushing liability issues with the club these days, not sure about the club, which would most likely err on the conservative side and I don't think that would ever fly.

I see your point, but the W35 requires many bushwacks. What about the liability of those?

 

[Mike P.]

I'd be tempted to say that they are easier. Blackhead easier than the ledge near the top of Black Dome, Slide & Panther from CR 47 don't require a lot of elevation gain although the col between Giant Ledge & Panther is (was when I did it) interesting.

I found Hunter from Stony Clove in winter to be tougher along with Cornell from Slide (And that is supposed to be te easy way to Cornell in winter)

Have not done Balsam yet....

 

[Jay H]

I see your point, but the W35 requires many bushwacks. What about the liability of those?

The majority of hikers do the regular patch first, then get introduced to the winter hikes via the 4 required patches.. Despite what you read here, on yahoo, etc, I think us diehards are the minority. Most of us I think hike in 4 seasons and don't think much of the winter bushwacks, other than just being more prepared, however, I think the 3500 club is conservative enough not to require a winter bushwack for the regular list.

If the club forced those who get the normal regular 3500 to go do a winter 3500 bushwack, they may or may not have a lot of XP with winter hiking.

Jay

 

[woodstrider]

Because the four founding members did it this way.