Adjusting tension on NNN BC bindings

[Jay H]

I notice that one of my skis (Karhu Pavos) seems to be a lot tighter than the other. (with Rot. NNN BC bindings-manual) How do you adjust the tension and what tools do I need for it so the next time I'm out, I can adjust it in use. One of them is really tight after snow/ice forms in it and I'd like to adjust it out a little. I also would like to see how good cooking spray will help in preventing snow from getting in there and making it hard in the first place.

Jay

 

[Becca M]

I notice that one of my skis (Karhu Pavos) seems to be a lot tighter than the other. (with Rot. NNN BC bindings-manual) How do you adjust the tension and what tools do I need for it so the next time I'm out, I can adjust it in use. One of them is really tight after snow/ice forms in it and I'd like to adjust it out a little. I also would like to see how good cooking spray will help in preventing snow from getting in there and making it hard in the first place.

Jay

Hi - I used to use NNN-BC bindings and had trouble on and off with one of the bindings - kept getting icy especially after I had to take it off for a stream crossing/etc. I finally just carried a knife and was REALLY careful about keeping ice out of it. I wasn't aware of any adjustment, but, maybe a google search might reveal something? I finally switched over to a 3-pin setup and feel MUCH more secure and I am not so afraid of being stuck in the middle of nowhere with one ski off.

 

[Jay H]

I first tried Google before I posted but didn't find much. I'm told there isn't an adjustment but it always seems to me that one is easy to close while another was always hard. I'm going to try the cooking oil, since the bindings are metal, makes sense that they get iced over easily, and then you are compressing the bar on the boot which further complicates the matter...

Jay

 

[skiguy]

I donot believe there is any way of manually changing the tension on these bindings. Although I would take a look at the rubber Bit/Bumper where the toe of the boot meets the binding. The bit is basically what provides the stiffness of the hinging action of the binding. It is possible that you have uneven wear between your two ski bindings therefore one being tighter than the other. The other thing is that the bit is removable and may not be seated properly in the binding therefore being partially sticking out of the binding decreasing the space where the bar of the boot mates with the binding upon closure. The bit being removable also makes it possible to replace. Again they wear out with use or could be partially damaged therefore again not providing a good mate between the boot and binding. You also want to make sue that the binding and boot are clean and not damaged. The binding actually comes greased from the factory. That grease can attract dirt and grime over time. I would also insure that the bar on the boot is not bent. The icy buildup that occurs on the bottom of the boot and on the binding if not cleaned out before clamping down the binding can be very damaging over time if not cleaned out each and every time you use the binding. I have seen more than once where boots and bindings were not cleaned out and the binding was forced shut resulting in damage. The boots can also become temporarily frozen in the binding if not properly cleaned out. I'll never forget the time I was driving south on Rt. 93 after a day out in the woods and a car passed me with a pair of skis and NNN bindings on the roof of the car with the boots still in the bindings.

 

[skiguy]

I finally switched over to a 3-pin setup and feel MUCH more secure and I am not so afraid of being stuck in the middle of nowhere with one ski off.

Good move. Not to mention the added control. IMO NNN BC is for lighter applications and not too far from a heated environement.

 

[Jay H]

You two have obviously not seen me try to ski. I have not outgrown the NNN BC system by any means. I also don't get out to do as much XC as I like, certainly last year was mostly a bust. but even so, I'm not on my skis enough yet to find the added benefit of the 75mm system. I'm aware from doing research before I got my Karhus of the differences but these are my first set of skis/bindings. Thanks for the tips on the rubber bumper, that might be a good area to look at. I also need to see if it's always one ski thats the problem, since the skis are interchangeable... (at least as far as I am concerned anyway)

Jay

 

[dave.m]

Jay, I'm not understanding by what you are referring to in terms of the "tension".

Are you talking about the ease with which the manual lever opens and closes?

Or are you talking about how freely or not the boot pivots when kick and gliding?

They can be related but are generally different. If the former, then I would suspect that something is gumming up the internals of the lever assembly. I would flush with a silicone spray. Avoid anything with petroleum in it as that can eat away at the plastic and rubber bits. It could also be that the rubber toe bumper is out of place and interfering with the lever assembly.

If it's the latter, my first suspicion would be a rubber bumper that has somehow moved or gotten damaged. Decent shops should be able to put new ones in for you, or sell you new ones. On ours, they just pop in and out with a screw driver. The trick is to get them to seat correctly.

NNN bindings are finicky, ime.

 

[Jay H]

I mostly mean the former, i.e "the ease with which the manual lever opens and closes?" Sometimes it's me as I find I need to pivot the toe of the boot to get the bar to be completely "in" the binding. Otherwise I have to really push on the manual lever to get the binding to lock. Some of it I'm sure is the snow accumulation in the binding and/or the boot. It's just hard to isolate if it's the binding or boot. hence, I asked originally if there was any kind of adjustment to it (like you can adjust the fliklocks on the Black Diamond poles). Since I have ruled that out, that leaves either operator error or snow in the bindings or problem with rubber bumper.

I think I am going to try it out in my living room, take out the snow variable and see if I can tell if there is a difference between left ski and right ski. That would isolate the differences (if any) between the bindings on each side.

Jay

 

[dave.m]

Be sure to carefully inspect both toe bars for bending (common failure) and both bindings where they close on the bar to see if there is anything inside that you can see. Obviously, if a warm dry binding is sticky, something inside the housing is funky. Silicone spray is the first thing I would try.

Also, I would try both boots in both bindings. If sole or base plate somehow got damaged, that concievably could be preventing a boot from fully going into the binding and that could cause the stiff action you describe. If the toe bar of the boot doesn't fully seat, that will produce that feeling as the binding tries to "catch" the toe bar.

 

[TCD]

It might be worthwhile to contact the manufacturer or your local shop for info, too.

/Editorial/ I've stayed away from NNN. I've been perfectly happy with Rottefella R8 cables - strong and simple. Don't see a need for a change. And "icing up", "can't adjust", and "finicky" are all red flags to me. The biggest red flag by far is the attempt to introduce it as the "New Norm." I lost interest in it right there. /Editorial off/

 

[Brambor]

I use both and I have to say that I enjoy the NNNBC about equally as the 3 pin. Especially with the NNN BC Magnum binding and skis like Glittertinds I think there is a good combination there for ski / hike combo as the lack of duck bill is easier on microspikes or general hiking. The availability of insulated boots in the NNN BC range is nice as well.

 

[skiguy]

NNN BC is convenient to use until it breaks on the trail. Three Pin bindings and/or bindings that use cables for duckbill boots are far easier to work on for general maintenance and repair. Most Three pin bindings mount with three screws where the heads of the screws are exposed and easily accessible. All of the mounting hardware that is involved for clamping /activating on a NNN binding is buried underneath a plastic housing which makes it accessibilty more difficult. Also the mechanism has more moving parts (springs and clips) which in cold weather standing knee deep in snow would be quite a chore IMO to fix. Where as if there is a failure with Three Pin the binding is easily removed and a spare one can be reattached with just Three screws. NNN and SNS was first developed for racing skis and Light Touring usually within a groomed touring center environement. NNN and SNS BC were a later developement best suited for Light to Medium touring not heavy mountain skiing.

 

[sardog1]

I use both and I have to say that I enjoy the NNNBC about equally as the 3 pin. Especially with the NNN BC Magnum binding and skis like Glittertinds I think there is a good combination there for ski / hike combo as the lack of duck bill is easier on microspikes or general hiking. The availability of insulated boots in the NNN BC range is nice as well.

"That depends on what your definition of 'availability' is."

Asolo 75 mm boots on eBay $ – $$ (I bought a like-new pair of Extremes there a few years back for a ridiculously low price.)

Scarpa line of 75 mm boots $$

Pricey selection of 75 mm boots from Norway $$$!!!

 

[DougPaul]

"That depends on what your definition of 'availability' is."

REI (www.rei.com), EMS (www.ems.com), and Akers Ski (http://www.akers-ski.com/) as well as many other well-known outdoors stores sell 75 mm boots. Just search on "75 mm boot" at any of the above.

Doug

 

[Brambor]

take it easy guys I like 3pin bindings too. There is lots of wiggle room here ;-)

 

[Dana]

I just [finally!] replaced my 30 year old skis (3 pin bindings, low shoes) with modern BC skis, NNN bindings, and higher boots. Can't say much about the reliability, hasn't been enough snow to get out much, but from a performance and rigidity standpoint I sure don't want to go back!

 

[sardog1]

I just [finally!] replaced my 30 year old skis (3 pin bindings, low shoes) with modern BC skis, NNN bindings, and higher boots. Can't say much about the reliability, hasn't been enough snow to get out much, but from a performance and rigidity standpoint I sure don't want to go back!

The boot height will probably make more difference than any other aspect, depending on which skis you used previously. You'll undoubtedly find it a lot more fun to tackle the steeps now. Plus the boots will be somewhat warmer.

 

[DougPaul]

I just [finally!] replaced my 30 year old skis (3 pin bindings, low shoes) with modern BC skis, NNN bindings, and higher boots. Can't say much about the reliability, hasn't been enough snow to get out much, but from a performance and rigidity standpoint I sure don't want to go back!

I've had both flimsy and sturdy 3-pin gear.

My first boots were part of a skis+poles+boots package and were rather flimsy--I could put my heel down off the ski. I soon replaced them with much sturdier boots and, of course, gained better control of the skis. I now usually use Asolo Snowfield II (leather) boots and Rottefella Super Telemark bindings for BC and track skiing--a very sturdy combination. So sturdy that my leg broke rather than the boots/bindings during a "little accident" six years ago. If I want an even more sturdy connection to my skis, I have Scarpa T3 (plastic) light Telemark boots--I have used these boots with my BC skis at a downhill area very successfully (with the Super Telemark bindings--no cables).

The 75mm Nordic Norm (the formal name for 3-pin) family includes bindings and boots for light touring all the way up to heavy Telemarking gear.

Dave.m has a nice write-up on Nordic skis, boots, bindings, and more at http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html. He thoughtfully included pictures of both the Snowfield II boot and the Super Telemark binding. (Thanks Dave! )

Doug