Any Cats in the Catskills?

[quiet sun]

Our neighbors say they saw a mountain lion this summer crossing the road.
I've lived in the catskills now for four years, hike almost weekly for 20 years and have seen lots of animals, but no cats. Anyone out there seen any?

 

[WCTDave]

it was probably a bobcat

 

[Mark Schaefer]

I have been hiking in the Catskills for 31 years and have never seen a Mountain Lion or other large cat. It seems that at least one a year a similar sighting is claimed somewhere in the Catskills. It is always possible that one is out there or passing through the area. I agree with WCTDave that it was likely a bobcat. I recall an article perhaps a decade ago, probably in the Kaatskill Life magazine, with local photos, titled "A Cat named Bob".

The DEC readily acknowledges that bobcats are in the Catskills and other areas of NYS. An excerpt from a NYS Conservationist magazine centerfold on NYS mammals.

BOBCAT
Found in much of New York State, the bobcat is similar in appearance to a very large house cat, except with a short "bobbed" tail. It has a black spotted tail with a white tip, and short ear tassels. Adult males average 28 pounds, and grow up to 22 inches tall at the shoulder. Bobcats prefer forests, wooded swamps and rocky outcrops. They eat a variety of animals from mice to deer, blue jays to wild turkeys.

 

[quiet sun]

cats in the cats

I have also seen bobcat, mink, coy, coyote, deer, porcupine, etc.,and so has my neighbor. This is definitely a panther/ mountain lion/cougar according to them.

 

[woodstrider]

Catamounts in the Catskills

It may have been a mountain Lion. I was told by a reliable source that some time ago some were released in the Catskills.

But that said- I myself never felt that a sustainable population could be established in this area. It would be interesting, though, if it did happen.

 

[mudhook51]

I've been in the cats along time and never seen one. But.... I've talked to many reliable witnesses who have, farmers who have lost livestock, people who do alot of driving around the mts., trappers who have seen the tracks, and others. But....., no pictures, no road kills. One theory is that being so close to NYC, people bring them (pets) up here and release them . Not being able to survive in the wild they soon die . Another theory is the DEC releases them along with everything else from catapiller eating flies to wolves. They might be here and I've just never seen one. It was 40 years before I saw my first wild bear. I know several real hunters who have still never seen one. As for cats, why not, but until I see one, I could'nt be sure.

 

[WCTDave]

Call me a skeptic...there have tall tales about Cougar (aka Mountain Lions) in the Adirondacks as well for decades now. Yet not one photograph, not one corpse, not one pile of scat. Abominal snowman anyone?

One other point, wild cats are NOTORIOUSLY elusive creatures...I would be drop-dead shocked if one crossed an open road in daylight within ear shot of a moving car. I suppose anything is possible though.

 

[una_dogger]

Wrote this on another thread, but thought I'd put it here too.
I live in NY in Dutchess and I saw a mountain lion in broad daylight drinking from our pond. Many people here in my town have also seen a mountain lion over the past couple of years, ranging along the AT corridor from Nuclear Lake in NY to Kent, CT. Some people who live in the Pawling Mntn Club (private gun club community) set up a camera and got pics of it last year, and submitted them to DEC. It was confirmed and the pics are up at Orvis in Dutchess Co.
This summer I spoke to DEC after my sighting and they verified that there were several calls in Ulster County, even as close to the Hudson River as Highland NY. The DEC said that because its been so dry there are critters out looking for water in areas they may not visit under normal circumstances.
Where are they from? The DEC says on its website they have not done released for deer control, but there are rampant stories from people who know someone at DEC saying they have. There was a dog killed this summer on the NY/PA border near Wilkes Barre PA and the PA DEP say that NY DEC is releasing lions.
The wildlife guy I spoke to at DEC said that there are concerns of people buying them as black market pets and then releasing them when they mature and are hard to handle. Up in Maine there are confirmed, breeding pairs and these too are thought to be escaped captives.
I've really interested in the "urbanization" of wildlife, esp large predators, so I've done lots of reading and internet research. If you search on mountain lions you'll find lots of info, newspaper articles, and press releases from state wildlife depts.
Very cool and interesting.
I certainly think that they are here.
Sabrina

 

[MattC]

A guy I work w/ who lives in Fleischmanns (Northwestern Catskills) told me today that he saw one in his yard. He says it took a tom turkey they had in a cage. The tom was found later thoroughly devoured. I don't know this guy that well, but I know that he knows what they look like vs. bobcats, etc. I also don't think he'd have any reason to BS about this.

Sabrina, if it's true that there was one near Highland, that blows my mind. Seems like there would be far too little undeveloped land around there. Anyone interested in pursuing this topic, here's a site:
www.trackincats.com

Matt

 

[EarthNsky]

Rumour has it that mountain lion are back in western Pennsylvania. A state trooper reported seeing one cross a road near Johnstown not long ago. There are more and more rumours and sightings all the time, pointing towards an east coast comeback.

It would be amazing (perhaps a little scarey) to see one in the back country.

 

[Fu Jow Pai]

Here we go again...

Sightings, alleged sightings, DEC conspiracy theories. I live in the Catskills I've heard 'em all, love it, can't get enough of this topic! I've never had a sighting, but have talked to some who have and I do believe. Surprised that there's no solid evidence? The native Americans called them "ghosts of the woods" at a time when they were certainly more abundant then they are now...Somebody please bring back the New England Mountain Lion Sighting website, I miss obsessively checking it daily...I'll go calm down now

 

[Puma concolor]

No evidence?

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/northeast-desc/nydecmemo.htm

 

[una_dogger]

No evidence?

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/northeast-desc/nydecmemo.htm

Hey MarkS, that's an interesting memo and also provides good info for identifying lion activity by thier feeding patterns.
I hadn't heard that NYSDEC was disputing thier prescence, but that they were dispelling rumors that DEC had intentionally released them for deer control.

Mcorsar, re:lion in Highland, there actually is a fair amount of natural cover and corridor from the DWG and Catskills over to the Hudson. It was so dry this summer that animals needed to range to find water.

I have friends out in CO on the front range and lions on the city streets and open space parks of Boulder is not uncommon, even in daylight. Anywhere that deer are to be had and there is no threat to lions, they'll adapt.

A great book on the subject is David Baron's "A beast in the Garden"

Sabrina

 

[funkyfreddy]

OK, this is a BIZARRE coincidence...... but in NYC today I met a woman from Highland who swears she and her father have seen cougars. I won't write online all of the details and info she gave me but it sounded very credible......

 

[thuja]

Surprised that there's no solid evidence? The native Americans called them "ghosts of the woods" at a time when they were certainly more abundant then they are now...Somebody please bring back the New England Mountain Lion Sighting website, I miss obsessively checking it daily...I'll go calm down now

Judging by my experiences in western WA, where they are not particularly rare, I would say that whereas they are generally elusive(except when they choose not to be), their sign is not. Tracks turn up in the most surprising places. The tracks really cannot be mistaken for anything else, since they are obviously cat, but so damned big. I have seen cougars on the ground here only twice in fifteen years, but I see tracks maybe a couple of times a year, when the conditions are right (esp. fresh snow in the foothills zone)

 

[Puma concolor]

I hadn't heard that NYSDEC was disputing thier prescence, but that they were dispelling rumors that DEC had intentionally released them for deer control.
Sabrina

Official NYSDEC public position on cougars in New York State (scroll down to "status"):

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/endspec/eacofs.html

I also agree that "Beast in the Garden" is a great read.

 

[una_dogger]

Expanding this topic a tad....

Another great read is Karsten Huer's "Walking the Big Wild: From Yellowstone to The Yukon on the Grizzly Bear's Trail". The author sets off on foot to see in reality if narrow natural corridors can sustain populations of species by connecting islands that would become genetically unsustainable if cut off from recruitment. The bottom line is that there are critters great and small just outside our backdoors, even in bottleneck regions where they are pushed to the fray; they find a way to skirt around us.

 

[funkyfreddy]

The bottom line is that there are critters great and small just outside our backdoors, even in bottleneck regions where they are pushed to the fray; they find a way to skirt around us.

I do not think this is the case with the spotted owl, the grizzly bear, and many other species of plants and animals. While it might be comforting to make such general statements about nature and the ability of "critters" to adapt, I think one should check out the links below, which presents a far different "bottom line".

http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html

 

[una_dogger]

Oh sorry Freddy

I wasn't trying to minimize or upset anyone so I hope that I haven't. I was still speaking within the context of animals living amongst us .

 

[Explorer Editor]

Cougar on video

The Border Patrol in northern Vermont recently captured what appeared to be a cougar on a surveillance camera.

Read all about it.