Do you think it's safe ?

[timmus]

You’ve been invited to a big hike that is much more than what your experience allows you to do. For your safety, you’ll need to rely on the other members of the group, ask them if your gear is right for the conditions and to show you how to use some equipment.

Plus you have to let them know (before the trip) you are not at their level, so they need to keep an eye on you.

You know you are taking a risk, and that you put everyone in a precarious situation.

They say “no problem”, but you don't know them much (just from vftt )Are you going anyway? Do you think it's safe ?

If you see yourself more as a member of the first group, how do feel about that less-experienced hiker that might ruin your trip?? Ready to help, worried or just annoyed??

 

[Peakbagr]

Julie,

This - "You know you are taking a risk, and that you put everyone in a precarious situation." is the key.

The person described knows themselves best. You've laid out a situation where the companions do not. They may assume more experience. Not right for the hypothetical person in this situation to proceed and put everyone in a pickle if things don't go right. Just my opinion based on what you've described.

BTW, how are those feet coming along?

 

[Tom Rankin]

If you see yourself more as a member of the first group, how do feel about that less-experienced hiker that might ruin your trip?? Ready to help, worried or just annoyed??

It depends on what you mean by risk. Risk not getting another notch in the belt? Too bad... Risk injury or death? That's a much different risk!

 

[timmus]

The person described knows themselves best. You've laid out a situation where the companions do not. They may assume more experience. Not right for the hypothetical person in this situation to proceed and put everyone in a pickle if things don't go right. Just my opinion based on what you've described.

Alan, please read my initial post again :

Plus you have to let them know (before the trip) you are not at their level, so they need to keep an eye on you.


They say “no problem”

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Haven't we all been on both sides of this our entire lives? I usually prefer doing X with someone who is a little bit better or more experienced at X than I am so I can learn. Some days, I don't mind being the teacher. Where X = bicycling (racing in particular) I've given back a lot. Where X = parenting, I'm about on middle of the normal curve, but still rely on my siblings / in-law siblings with older kids. Where X = hiking (Whites), I'm just south of neutral -- consuming slightly more advice than I am handing out.

What's important is that the disparity is not too great that the learner is overwhelmed or a liability. Make sure expectations are set correctly on both sides.

For hiking, I wouldn't go on a trip organized by Ed Visteurs (say), nor would I go to Ranier with folks from VFTT -- the disparity is too great as is the risk to me and to them. You certainly wouldn't catch me signing on to climb Everest with Russell Brice!

Tim

 

[MadRiver]

If you are just a late addition to an already existing group, I would say do not go. If, however, you are the focus of the hike, meaning this is your introduction to hiking than the group already knows about your inexperience and is ready to assist you.

Here is a related question for the board. If this person in the scenario decides to go on the trip and discovers that he/she cannot continue, what does the group do? 1. Leave him/her to hike out alone? 2. The entire group hikes out? 3. One or two people volunteer to hike out with him/her?

 

[Neil]

Multiple questions.

An opinion on one of them.

If they all know, and you know, and they all know you know etc.etc. that you are the least experienced member of the group and are depending on them to get you there and back again then everything is cool. I see no risk unless the group is already extended to their limit of skill without having to deal with you on top of everything else. Or if you said, "no problem" when in truth you're quite worried about your abilities and experience.

Depending on the level of technical skills required you want to know and trust your partners well and vice versa.

 

[MichaelJ]

The way to learn, and to improve oneself, is to go beyond one's normal abilities and try newer, harder things. If you only do what you're capable of, you'll never move forward.

It's true that only you can say what you are or aren't capable of; however, only that group can say what they do or don't find as an acceptable participant to them. It goes both ways.

In an example scenario for myself, I might say "I can do it, but I'll be slower by as much as xxx hour." Their response could be "Fine, no worries, we'll all get there", or their response might be "That won't work, it will be safety risk, sorry".

If the group fully understands where you're at, and accepts that, and so your and their expectations are the same, then go for it. But you must both be totally honest with each other.

 

[Peakbagr]

Guess I was reacting to 'precarious postion'. That to me didn't describe the group having to turn back short of a destination or the group being disappointed. I took it to mean it would put the guest or party's safety at risk.

Other than safety, if the newer person provides full disclosure, go for it.

 

[Maddy]

You’ve been invited to a big hike that is much more than what your experience allows you to do. For your safety, you’ll need to rely on the other members of the group, ask them if your gear is right for the conditions and to show you how to use some equipment.
?

Another idea might be to go on an "easier" hike with this group and get a feeling for what kind of hikers they are. You would get to check out their pace as compared to yours, what kind of gear they carry, and how concerned they are for each other.
This might enable you to get to know them and vice versa under less stressful conditions and you could then make a decision about whether you feel comfortable taking that next step.

 

[Rik]

If the group fully understands where you're at, and accepts that, and so your and their expectations are the same, then go for it. But you must both be totally honest with each other.

This best sums up my answer.

 

[giggy]

For hiking, I wouldn't go on a trip organized by Ed Visteurs (say), nor would I go to Ranier with folks from VFTT -- the disparity is too great as is the risk to me and to them.

why not? plenty of people on VFTT skilled enough to do Rainier. half the battle on these bigger peaks where your with people for more than a day is to make sure you can get along with them.

I say go - only way to get more exp is get out there and do things out of your comfort zone with people that are comfy in that zone.

anyone that takes someone on a trip on a situation like this knows they may have to turn around - worst case is your turn around, its not the end of the world. I find that many people are capable of doing more than they think they can. If thse folks didn't think you could handle whatever this trip is - they wouldn't have asked you.

have fun!

 

[bikehikeskifish]

why not? plenty of people on VFTT skilled enough to do Rainier. half the battle on these bigger peaks where your with people for more than a day is to make sure you can get along with them.

Don't you think I should have done some winter hikes with crampons and an ice axe first? Garfield & Galehead on Sunday was the first time I've been above 4000' in winter/near winter conditions. Would you take me in your group at my current level of experience?

I wouldn't go to Ranier right now with a guide, based on my experience. I would consider more winter hikes in the Whites, where I am more familiar with the terrain and conditions.

Tim

 

[RoySwkr]

The only way to become more skilled is to do new things, but you have to decide if this is the right time.

* Make sure everybody and not just your contact knows of your past experience and are OK with it to avoid unpleasant surprises on the trip

* Meet up with the people before the trip if you can to see if you get along in civilization

* Get references and check them as to these people's outdoor and coping skills

 

[Kevin Rooney]

What Neil said.

If the trip you're proposing is a multi-day trip, such as climbing high elevation peaks, it's always best to have warm-up hikes, so people get a chance to interact with each other. Multi-day hikes are as much about group dynamics as anything, so it's important that people know each other.

This isn't always possible, but it is optimal.

If the only knowledge I had of them, or they of me, was via VFTT, then that's a risk I won't take. But, YMMV.

 

[TCD]

Any group always has people at different levels. It's about setting, communicating, and agreeing on group expectations up front. The spectrum runs from: "we are in this just for fun, if anyone gets tired we'll all turn back" to "I trained for years and spent my life savings to get my one shot at this peak, and if you die right in front of me I'll leave your body by the trail and continue to the summit." Communicate!

 

[cbcbd]

They say “no problem”, but you don't know them much (just from vftt )Are you going anyway? Do you think it's safe ?

I lurk and observe, and try to get a good idea beforehand. I won't go on something where I feel I'm not ready for it yet. Buuuut, I do like to be pushed if I get a feel the person is competent and knows what they're doing - everyone has potential to be pushed past the limits and sometimes all you need is someone there to guide you through. Plus, I usually don't like to put my safety in other people's hands unless I'm paying them to do so. If I do something dumb out there it's my fault and I certainly won't expect you to save my a**.

If you see yourself more as a member of the first group, how do feel about that less-experienced hiker that might ruin your trip?? Ready to help, worried or just annoyed??

It's about expectations. If someone tells you they have done A,B,C,and D, but they really just did B, bonked on C and D, and got madly dragged up A... and you only find out about it that day, I'll be pretty pissed.
Actually, it really annoys me and pisses me off if you are dishonest with yourself and with me about your abilities - you just can't compromise safety in certain situations and I've seen people wanting to take shortcuts because they wanted to look cool and fit in, were overconfident, or were too excited that they lost their rational thinking.
I have no problem if you tell me, "hey, I know nothing and have kinda done A". At least then I know what to expect.

 

[cbcbd]

I wouldn't go to Ranier right now with a guide, based on my experience. I would consider more winter hikes in the Whites, where I am more familiar with the terrain and conditions.

Now that just sounds like it makes too much sense.


I think gig means to say that once you get that experience he'll be glad to take you up Rainier

 

[giggy]

Now that just sounds like it makes too much sense.


I think gig means to say that once you get that experience he'll be glad to take you up Rainier

stranger things have happened.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Julie, I'll bet whatever the challenge, you are up for it! You've amazed me with some of your accomplishments!