Franconia brook trl/13 falls/twin brook trail region beta request

[ctsparrow]

So am aware of recent high bear activity near 13 falls backcountry campsite. Any trail issues with encounters in the area?
Also, how is the beaver pond area on franconia brook trail? Foot+ of mud? Foot + water? Or just usual? Recent info from past month or so best. USFS not answering phones and talking to rangers am of long hike day not prudent if I should use alternate approach.
Thx sparrow

 

[TEO]

So am aware of recent high bear activity near 13 falls backcountry campsite. Any trail issues with encounters in the area?
Also, how is the beaver pond area on franconia brook trail? Foot+ of mud? Foot + water? Or just usual? Recent info from past month or so best. USFS not answering phones and talking to rangers am of long hike day not prudent if I should use alternate approach.
Thx sparrow

If it would make you more comfortable, the REI in West Hartford, CT, has bear spray in stock.

 

[sierra]

So am aware of recent high bear activity near 13 falls backcountry campsite. Any trail issues with encounters in the area?
Also, how is the beaver pond area on Franconia brook trail? Foot+ of mud? Foot + water? Or just usual? Recent info from past month or so best. USFS not answering phones and talking to rangers am of long hike day not prudent if I should use alternate approach.
Thx sparrow

You should not be concerned with bear encounters on the trail. If you do see one, make noise or make noise and back away if the bear does not run away. The only time I would be concerned, is if I didn't use proper food storage and had food in my tent, that could invite a problem. With all due respect to the previous commenter, Bear spray is not needed in the Whites.

 

[JoshandBaron]

Last month it was easy to get past the beaver pond section with dry feet.

 

[TEO]

With all due respect to the previous commenter, Bear spray is not needed in the Whites.

I agree. That said, there are stories of bears in the Adirondack High Peaks visiting lunching hikers. If carrying bear spray is going to make the difference between someone feeling comfortable hiking or not, then I see no harm in carrying it.

 

[ctsparrow]

Thanks all. I carried bear spray in Denali, ⁵don't think I ll go that route. Have encountered bears on trails b4, they seem happy to move on. Concern is for human acclimated ones near 13 falls, will make noise keep my head on a swivel and eat lunch quickly lol. Thanks for the heads up on trail by beaver pond, good news there although rain Friday pm might muck it up a bit.

 

[peakbagger]

Luckily the beaver seemed to have eaten up the browse in the area a few years ago. The railbed acts as natural dam and what has been causing the flooding for a couple of years has just been debris floating during the spring and blocking the drainage. There is little elevation drop between the two sides of the rail so the when the water is high its going to flood. There really are no good options to reroute the trail without adding a lot of length as the limits of the wet area go quite far east. There really is not good options beyond major drainage work or elevating the trail similar what was done on the AT across from Pinkham. Neither option is in keeping with wilderness policy so hikers should plan to possibly wade earlier in the season. Eventually the area will drain and dry up and the hardwood browse will grow back in and new batch of beavers will try to move back in and develop dam system that will be deep enough for them to survive a winter.

 

[ctsparrow]

Awesome info peakbagger! I knew flooding def a spring thing wasn't sure how prevalent rest of season. I haven't done full length of Fran brook trl so very helpful! Thx!:

 

[sierra]

I agree. That said, there are stories of bears in the Adirondack High Peaks visiting lunching hikers. If carrying bear spray is going to make the difference between someone feeling comfortable hiking or not, then I see no harm in carrying it.

If you need to feel "comfortable", then do some research as the OP did. Carrying something you don't need to give you a sense of comfort is ridiculous.

 

[dave.m]

If you need to feel "comfortable", then do some research as the OP did. Carrying something you don't need to give you a sense of comfort is ridiculous.

Shrug.

We all carry our fears...

...and call them necessities.

 

[NHClimber]

I occasionally carry spray. I agree that a true encounter and one where you could respond fast enough is pretty remote. And unlike brown bears, black bears 99.9% of the time do not exhibit predatory behavior (according to the literature). But as human and bear encounters seem to be on the rise in the U.S. (with some instances of black bear predatory behavior), I would defer to individuals to take such precautions as are necessary to make them comfortable when hiking or camping. There have been instances where hikers have been attacked and killed by black bears who have stalked them (not situations where the hiker startled a mother bear with cubs). As such, I see no reason to criticize those who take steps that may be more conservative than others, particularly when it has no impact on me at all. If I were camping in an area known to have bear activity, I would carry spray. In certain parts of the country, I would arm myself as well. There is a reason why F&G carry firearms (typically slug shotgun) when responding to bear nuisance calls -- they know that while an attack is highly unlikely, it is possible. Habituated bears can be unpredictable. And I am very rational about it -- I know the risk of an encounter is very low and I know the ability to respond with spray is also very low. But there are plenty of bear encounters in the literature where spray or other defenses made the difference. Fortunately, as noted by others above, we don't have many encounters here in the northeast.

 

[sierra]

I occasionally carry spray. I agree that a true encounter and one where you could respond fast enough is pretty remote. And unlike brown bears, black bears 99.9% of the time do not exhibit predatory behavior (according to the literature). But as human and bear encounters seem to be on the rise in the U.S. (with some instances of black bear predatory behavior), I would defer to individuals to take such precautions as are necessary to make them comfortable when hiking or camping. There have been instances where hikers have been attacked and killed by black bears who have stalked them (not situations where the hiker startled a mother bear with cubs). As such, I see no reason to criticize those who take steps that may be more conservative than others, particularly when it has no impact on me at all. If I were camping in an area known to have bear activity, I would carry spray. In certain parts of the country, I would arm myself as well. There is a reason why F&G carry firearms (typically slug shotgun) when responding to bear nuisance calls -- they know that while an attack is highly unlikely, it is possible. Habituated bears can be unpredictable. And I am very rational about it -- I know the risk of an encounter is very low and I know the ability to respond with spray is also very low. But there are plenty of bear encounters in the literature where spray or other defenses made the difference. Fortunately, as noted by others above, we don't have many encounters here in the northeast.

When I offer my opinion, it is based on over 40 experience in the Whites. Ironically on Friday, me and my dog ran smack dab into 3 cubs and their mother at a very close range. My dog barked once and I told him to be quiet, the cubs actually turned and came towards us a bit. I held my dog close and yelled at the bear, advancing just a bit as I did. The cubs stopped and the mother ran off, quickly followed by the cubs. I sat down and had a snack giving them time to move on without feeling pressured or bothered. This was probably my 15th close encounter with bears in the Northeast. I admit to not being Mr. Rogers, but I know what I'm talking about. You want to tell someone to carry spray in the Whites to make them feel "comfortable", go ahead, it's not the right advice, for the wrong reason. Have a nice day.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Also, if you don't have it out and ready at all times, you might as well not bring it.

Like Sierra, we've spent many years hiking all over the NE. We've never had a negative encounter with bears, and never brought bear spray.

 

[skiguy]

When I offer my opinion, it is based on over 40 experience in the Whites. Ironically on Friday, me and my dog ran smack dab into 3 cubs and their mother at a very close range. My dog barked once and I told him to be quiet, the cubs actually turned and came towards us a bit. I held my dog close and yelled at the bear, advancing just a bit as I did. The cubs stopped and the mother ran off, quickly followed by the cubs. I sat down and had a snack giving them time to move on without feeling pressured or bothered. This was probably my 15th close encounter with bears in the Northeast. I admit to not being Mr. Rogers, but I know what I'm talking about. You want to tell someone to carry spray in the Whites to make them feel "comfortable", go ahead, it's not the right advice, for the wrong reason. Have a nice day.

I think I would be more likely to carry "Bare Spray" in the Whites for a potential encounter with a tripping naked Hiker on a roof than for an actual Black Bear encounter.

 

[dug]

I don't get the angst with what others want to do. If someone wants to carry something because it makes them feel more comfortable, it has no affect on me. I personally wouldn't bother, and the only real interaction was with Brutus, the Pemi bear who ended up being put down (I believe). If we had spray, it likely would've been used as he showed no inclination on leaving initially. Could've made the situation worse. But, to each their own.

Since we are measuring experiences, that comes with over 50 years experience in the Whites....

 

[sierra]

I don't get the angst with what others want to do. If someone wants to carry something because it makes them feel more comfortable, it has no affect on me. I personally wouldn't bother, and the only real interaction was with Brutus, the Pemi bear who ended up being put down (I believe). If we had spray, it likely would've been used as he showed no inclination on leaving initially. Could've made the situation worse. But, to each their own.

Since we are measuring experiences, that comes with over 50 years experience in the Whites....

Since you obviously had me in mind when you commented, I'll respond. I have no "angst" I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it. When I started hiking in CA and CO, I joined some sites like VFTT that were in those states to educate me on the wildlife and high peaks that I planned to climb. I was looking for information that I could rely on, not information that made me feel good. Why is everyone so sensitive now a days?

 

[TEO]

I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it.

Are you saying that bear spray wasn't available at the West Hartford REI? If not, what was the incorrect information?

(That's great that you are older than 40; you've hiked in NH, CO, and CA; and have seen a bear. Have you been anywhere else? Have you spent any time in NH outside of what's covered in the White Mountain Guide?)

There are people who have irrational fears about wildlife and/or being in the woods/mountains/great outdoors. Given the choice between: (A) carrying a handgun, (B) carrying a tool that, if unnecessary, is effective when used as directed, or (C) not getting outside, I will almost always recommend (B).

With the increasing encounters between Black Bears and humans in the Northeast, perhaps we should be looking more to the use of bear spray. There are some that argue that making loud noises only furthers the habituation. (I'm thinking as much about "in town" or close-to-home encounters as on-trail or in-the-woods encounters.)

 

[dug]

Since you obviously had me in mind when you commented, I'll respond. I have no "angst" I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it. When I started hiking in CA and CO, I joined some sites like VFTT that were in those states to educate me on the wildlife and high peaks that I planned to climb. I was looking for information that I could rely on, not information that made me feel good. Why is everyone so sensitive now a days?

Giving information based on one's experiences = good
Mocking someone for being overly protective = notsogood

Maybe when you have more experience in the Whites you'll get that.

 

[DayTrip]

Is "Hike Your Own Hike" still a thing or did that go away?

 

[DayTrip]

I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it.....Why is everyone so sensitive now a days?

I think people get sensitive because that is a pretty strong statement. You always critique me for overthinking (which is fine - I don't mind) so I'll return some friendly advice (cash value = $0.01) and say that your responses sometimes can be fairly abrasive and can be taken as insulting. To declare that the info was "wrong" and you "corrected it" is on it's face pretty obnoxious, regardless of your experience level. I could see where people here not familiar with you and your background would not appreciate that. I personally don't mind but I can see where others would. Please don't take this as inflammatory because that is not my intent. I personally like your bold statements because it can stir up good conversation, but that's just me. I love a good argument.

With regard to the original question, there has been quite an an uptick in bear encounters, especially at established campsites, many of which have had temporary closures. And in my experience there are a lot of people out there failing to store food properly (bad bear hangs, not bothering to hang at all or worse). So more bear activity and poor food storage by campers would certainly seem to make this site more likely to have a bear encounter. So to ask the question of "Should I bring bear spray" seems reasonable to me, not some over-the-top ridiculous question. I personally still wouldn't bring any and have never felt the need for it despite many encounters but I can see where someone would consider it. This is not a right/wrong question to me. It's a personal preference/opinion. So suggesting that someone does something that you would not do is "wrong" seems out of place and unnecessarily confrontational. And to other's points, who cares if the OP brings or doesn't bring spray? Purely my opinion, not a judgement on right vs wrong. I don't think there is a "correct" answer to this type of question (unless of course there was some sort of law or statute requiring it).