Garmin GPSMap 60C

[Mongoose]

It looks like I'm getting a new GPS. Rather than pay for a computer I'm building, I'm getting a Garmin GPSMap 60C plus United States TOPO and MetroGuide USA. I don't know much about this stuff, is it good for hiking? Does the Topo software have accurate trail locations or is there a way I can download more accurate trail info? I have a Garmin Etrex now that I barely use.

 

[kmorgan]

It looks like I'm getting a new GPS. Rather than pay for a computer I'm building, I'm getting a Garmin GPSMap 60C plus United States TOPO and MetroGuide USA. I don't know much about this stuff, is it good for hiking? Does the Topo software have accurate trail locations or is there a way I can download more accurate trail info? I have a Garmin Etrex now that I barely use.

Hey Mongoose,
I have a 60CS and I love it. I have had several Garmin units and this is by far the best.

The TOPO software, while excellent for summits, rivers, swamps, etc., is not the best for trails. Your best bet for trails is to have the printed maps and use them along with TOPO and Street software to place your waypoints then load them into the unit.

I also bought an external amplified antenna (the one that would mount to a car), removed the magnets (they make it so it's easy to do) and mounted it on the hand strap on top of my pack. To keep it oriented in a horizontal position I made a quick bracket from a coat hanger. VERY accurate compared to the built in antenna plus in the winter you can bury the unit deep inside your pack to keep the batteries warm.

Kevin

 

[DougPaul]

It looks like I'm getting a new GPS. Rather than pay for a computer I'm building, I'm getting a Garmin GPSMap 60C plus United States TOPO and MetroGuide USA. I don't know much about this stuff, is it good for hiking? Does the Topo software have accurate trail locations or is there a way I can download more accurate trail info? I have a Garmin Etrex now that I barely use.

A quick look at the Garmin website shows the 60C to be a discontinued model. It has the older GPS chipset which is not as effective under tree cover as the newer "high sensitivity" models. I suggest that you consider the 60Cx or the 60CSx, both of which use the (high sensitivity) SiRFstarIII GPS chipset.* The *x models also feature a removable data card which allows one to put in up to 2GB of map storage. (The 60C has only 56MB which can easily become an annoying limitation.) FWIW, I have something like 1.3GB of topo and road map loaded into my 60CSx.

* The high sensitivity GPS chipsets significantly reduce the need for external antennas. (In general, I don't need/use mine unless I am specifically mapping a trail/route.)

The (Garmin) US Topo maps are based upon the USGS 100K topos and are generally accurate, but are a bit dated. This product is recently discontinued (still available in many stores) and has been replaced by the US Topo 2008 map product, which appears to be an improvment. (I'm considering upgrading.)

Garmin also has some 24K topo map products for selected areas (national parks plus some popular hiking areas (eg WMNF, Daks)). If you want more detail on more up-to-date maps, these are worth considering if they cover areas which are of interest to you.

FWIW, I have Metroguide 4.02 (road maps, discontinued), US Topo, and 24K East topo maps.

Re Garmin's road maps: Many of the current products are locked to a GPS (ie you must register them and Garmin will give you an unlock code for 1 GPS.) You cannot move them to another GPS without buying another unlock. Also, in the past, one or more of Garmin's roadmap products would autoroute on the computer, but not on a GPS. If you want to autoroute on the GPS, make sure that the roadmap supports autorouting on the GPS.

More info on the GPSes and maps at www.garmin.com.

Doug

 

[Raymond]

If you barely use the one you have, why do you need a new one?

 

[Viewseeker]

i have the new visat cx , its color,small for all outdoor activities and still can be used in the car with metroguide.Has mini-sdmemory cards to insert for more memory.I bought a 256mb chip as an extra although. you can install most of ny topo and metroguide on the chip that comes with it 64mb.It works for me as the best all around.Screen is not big for the car but is great for hiking, just clip it to my strap and of we go.Got hooked from a buddy,adirobdacker46r and just had to have it.

 

[Paradox]

The 60CSx is a do it all unit and it grabs a signal much quicker than my older eTrex units or the Streetpilot model that I have. If you have the City Navigator software it will do routing for you and you can use it in the car.

For instance, my family and I went to London, UK two weeks ago. We used my 60CSx to get us all around London while walking and I used it to get us out to Stonehenge and Bath in a rented car for the day. On two separate occasions, I had locals ask me for directions. They understood that I was carrying a GPS.

About the only features that are missing from the 60CSx has no female voice to give directions (a feature of the Streetpilot which I find irritating, and turned off after a few months) and the screen is smaller.

London trip pictures

 

[Mongoose]

If you barely use the one you have, why do you need a new one?

Heh, well the reason I don't use the current one much is I don't have coordinates for anywhere I'm going. I have to hike a whole trail and record everything first. With the 60C it looks like I can download trails and landmarks from the software. I can also download driving maps too which is nice.

My sister only has the 60C so I won't be able to get the CS or CSx.

Is there a website where I can download GPS data for trails in the Whites?

 

[Paradox]

My sister only has the 60C so I won't be able to get the CS or CSx.

Bummer! As I understand it there is a big difference between the 60C and the 60CSx. Doug has many posts on the subject.

Is there a website where I can download GPS data for trails in the Whites?

Well yes, right here if you ask for it. Some people are worried about liability nowadays and are reluctant to give out this data without some sort of disclaimer. When I am setting up a hike, I only put in a few waypoints: usually just trailheads, trail junctions, and summits. So for instance when doing Owl's Head via the Black Pond bushwack you might only enter waypoints for 1) Lincoln Woods Visitor Center, 2) Blackpond, 3) a guestimate for your arrival point of the bushwack onto Lincoln Brook Trail, 4) the Owl's Head Slide Trail, and 5) your choice of summits. Any more waypoints tends to clutter and route-ing features do not work very well when off road.

When entering a waypoint into the unit that you derive from maps or software you will find that you will be off by about 50 to 500 feet once you actually get there. You will increase accuracy and precision by getting waypoints from folks that have actually been to a desired location. At any rate, the AMC maps of the Whites are derived from GPS data so I used to play a little game whereby I would try to get close to the map derived waypoint once I had hiked to the location. The mapping feature makes all of the waypoint entry much faster before a hike. The Map Adventures and new AMC maps have all of the GPS data laid out along the borders.

 

[DougPaul]

If you barely use the one you have, why do you need a new one?

One reason might be for emergencies/"navigational confusion" in poor reception areas. For instance if the tree cover is very heavy, some of the older GPSes may not be able to receive the signals, whereas one of the high-sensitivity units likely would receive the signals. Add enough overcast to hide the sun and it would be easy to lose one's sense of direction.

The above situation could occur for a semi-traditional bushwacker who prefers to navigate with map and compass but carries a GPS as insurance against getting "confused".

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

The 60CSx is a do it all unit and it grabs a signal much quicker than my older eTrex units or the Streetpilot model that I have. If you have the City Navigator software it will do routing for you and you can use it in the car.

Second the above... I did similar things with mine on a trip to FL.

Autorouting can do some odd things... It can be amusing to autoroute a trip while driving your own route. However, it will get you there--a very handy feature in a strange area. (There are occasional errors in the maps or changes in the roads which can cause occasional problems/entertainments.)

For routes where I want to specify the GPS's behavior, I manually put waypoints at each intersection and string them into a route. Takes away the amusement, but when it indicates the distance to the next turn, I know exactly what it means. (You can also do this on non-autorouting GPSes/maps.)

About the only features that are missing from the 60CSx has no female voice to give directions (a feature of the Streetpilot which I find irritating, and turned off after a few months) and the screen is smaller.

The autorouting can be a bit of a nag, even without the voice... (The 60/76 series has a beeper to call your attention to it and prints the message on the screen.)

The screen size is a bit of a double edged sword--bigger would be better in the car, but then it wouldn't fit in one's pocket.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Heh, well the reason I don't use the current one much is I don't have coordinates for anywhere I'm going. I have to hike a whole trail and record everything first. With the 60C it looks like I can download trails and landmarks from the software. I can also download driving maps too which is nice.

My sister only has the 60C so I won't be able to get the CS or CSx.

Is there a website where I can download GPS data for trails in the Whites?

You don't need to get the GPS data for trails from websites.

Alternatives:
* (non-computer method 1) Read the lat-lon of the desired waypoints off a paper map, computer map, or topozone, set a waypoint, and edit in the numbers. You can then string them into a route, if desired. Works, but it is laborious and error prone.
* (non-computer method 2) Move the pointer around on the internal topo and set wapoints. You can then string them into a route if desired. Faster than 1, but requires that appropriate topo maps be loaded into the GPS.
* (computer method, 3) Locate (move the pointer onto) the desired waypoints on your computer and click on them to set them. String the waypoints together into a route if desired. Download into the GPS. Easy and fast. Requires computer and software, but you need that to load maps into the GPS anyhow...

I've done methods 2 and 3. (Method 1 would be useful if someone gives you a printed list of waypoints.) I've never felt the slightest need to load someone else's route or track into my GPS. Doing it yourself also ensures that when you are out in the field, you will have a good mental image of the area. For me, method 3 takes less time than finding someone else's data.

* (method 4) I frequently place no waypoints or routes for a hike on the GPS. I simply have the appropriate topo map loaded and watch my position on the screen. It is trivial to transfer one's position between a paper map and the GPS by inspection if you know approximately where you are. Takes no preparation time if you keep the appropriate maps loaded in the GPS. (I just keep road and topo maps for the eastern US in the GPS and only need to reload for unusual trips.)

If you do not have the appropriate maps in the GPS, just putting in waypoints for trail junctions and nearby points of interest (eg summits) can do a lot when used in conjunction with a paper map.

Doug

 

[Paradox]

The autorouting can be a bit of a nag...

Yah, mine started giving long, loud, sighs and then would say: "Why don't you just stop, and ask someone for directions!"

 

[Mongoose]

woot, I got my GPS today. I just finished installing the new firmware on it. I'll play around with the Metro guide software when I go for a bike ride tomorrow. It looks fun!

 

[DougPaul]

woot, I got my GPS today. I just finished installing the new firmware on it. I'll play around with the Metro guide software when I go for a bike ride tomorrow. It looks fun!

Sounds good...

Suggestion 1: some of the bike mounts can drop the GPS when you go over a bump. Make sure you back up the mount with the lanyard. The GPS you save may be your own... (You can also carry the GPS safely in a pocket, a pack or in a bike cargo carrier, but it is a bit hard to read in those locations.)

Suggestion 2: The battery spring contacts in 60/76 series are vibration sensitive. As you go over bumps, the batteries may disconnect for a moment which will cause the GPS to shut down. Different batteries are of slightly different sizes and some are looser than others--this occurs if the batteries are a bit loose. One fix is to put a bit of tape on the side of each cell to make it fit a bit tighter to secure the batteries.

Suggestion 3: Some people have broken the battery spring contacts. Be gentle with them.

After you get back you can download the track and see where you have been to a rediculous accuracy.

Have fun!

Doug

 

[Mongoose]

No autorouting?

It looks like the software I got with the GPS doesn't support autorouting (following the roads) on the GPS? I have the MetroGuide USA v5 software. I can load a map and a route onto the GPS. The route autoroutes on the computer, but when I transfer it to the GPS, the GPS can't autoroute it. If I tell the GPS to Navigate the route, it draws these big lines from each point out to the major highways.

Is there any way to fix this? Or do I have to make all my own waypoints at every intersection and turn in the road?

 

[MichaelJ]

I'm not sure about the 60C, but on the 60Csx the road map has to be the selected map when the route is created. So on my menus, that's
go to map screen
press menu to get the menu
use arrows to select the "I" icon
now a really long list of all the loaded map segments pops up
press menu again
hide the basemap, hide any topo, and show the street map

 

[DougPaul]

It looks like the software I got with the GPS doesn't support autorouting (following the rodes) on the GPS? I have the MetroGuide USA v5 software. I can load a map and a route onto the GPS. The route autoroutes on the computer, but when I transfer it to the GPS, the GPS can't autoroute it. If I tell the GPS to Navigate the route, it draws these big lines from each point out to the major highways.

Is there any way to fix this?

I believe the answer is no. All of the Garmin road maps autoroute on the computer, but only some of them autoroute on the GPS. According to http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/ontheRoad/, the current versions of City Select and City Navigator autoroute on the GPS, Metroguide does not. (Metroguide v4 did autoroute on the GPS, but it is discontinued.)

AFAIK, all of the current autoroute-on-the-GPS roadmap products are limited to 1 GPS and need to be unlocked through Garmin. (The products include one unlock and more can be purchased from Garmin.)

(Before anyone starts flaming Garmin, it appears that this locking requirement is imposed by the companies that provide the map data to Garmin.)

Or do I have to make all my own waypoints at every intersection and turn in the road?

Yep.
Even though I have autorouting maps on my GPS, I sometimes use this method (intersections only) rather than autoroute, because it is completely predictable. The autorouting sometimes does things that you might not expect or chooses a route that you don't like.

BTW, the basemap on the 60 series GPSes is autoroutable, but the detail is a little sparse. What you are seeing is autorouting on the basemap.

If one were autorouting between two distant cities, one might load in the detailed maps for each city region for local autorouting and autoroute on the basemap for the major highways between each region.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I'm not sure about the 60C, but on the 60Csx the road map has to be the selected map when the route is created. So on my menus, that's
go to map screen
press menu to get the menu
use arrows to select the "I" icon
now a really long list of all the loaded map segments pops up
press menu again
hide the basemap, hide any topo, and show the street map

Partly correct, but you do require an autoroutable map in the GPS. (It appears that Mongoose is using a non-routable roadmap.)

When you have multiple maps covering the same area loaded into the GPS, it uses an unpublished heirarchy to choose which map to display. The road maps are at the top of this heirarchy, so unless you have them turned off, they will automatically cover any topos and the basemap. So, in general, you do not have to turn any maps off--the map display default will show the road map and autoroute.

Doug

 

[Mongoose]

Ah, that's what I thought it might be... I guess it's not a big deal. I'll probably only use the GPS to get to specific points anyways.

 

[MichaelJ]

So, in general, you do not have to turn any maps off--the map display default will show the road map and autoroute.

Then I guess it's particular to my usage pattern, as I'm constantly switching between the topo and the street map depending on if I'm hiking or driving.