GPS waypoint registry?

[Mongoose]

Are there sites that have a collection of waypoints for the Whites and other back country areas? Things like trail junctions, shelters, summits, etc. I found these two sites, but they have limited info:

http://www.gpscoordinates.com/
http://www.waypoint.org/

I was thinking of making a website where people could add way points. It could be a repository of way point information for the North East. Does anyone think that could be useful?

 

[Peakbagr]

I think waypoints for shelters, trail jcts, and trailled summits is an intersting idea. IMHO, putting up waypoints for the lightly travelled or untrailled summits / routes on true bushwhacks is not something I'd be intersested in.

 

[Paradox]

I was thinking of making a website where people could add way points. It could be a repository of way point information for the North East. Does anyone think that could be useful?

Super idea, long overdue. I think the problem with this, is lawsuits. You'll notice that most maps nowadays have a disclaimer stating that it should not be used for navagation purposes. What else maps should be used for, is anybody's guess.

 

[Mongoose]

You'll notice that most maps nowadays have a disclaimer stating that it should not be used for navagation purposes. What else maps should be used for, is anybody's guess.

I'll put a disclaimer on the site: "These GPS waypoints should not be used on a GPS or as waypoints."

 

[DougPaul]

I find it easier to create my own waypoints for locations marked on a map than it is to find them in a registry. (And you familiarize yourself with the area in the process.) IMO, the only need for sharing waypoints is for locations that are not marked on standard topos. And one should think twice about placing these waypoints in publicly accessible locations if they are at all sensitive.

Doug

 

[Paradox]

I find it easier to create my own waypoints for locations marked on a map than it is to find them in a registry. (And you familiarize yourself with the area in the process.) IMO, the only need for sharing waypoints is for locations that are not marked on standard topos. And one should think twice about placing these waypoints in publicly accessible locations if they are at all sensitive.

Doug

Most of the time I agree with you, but there are times such as when looking for the Owl's Head Slide, or the bushwhack to avoid the stream crossings on the Isolation trail where these would be nice (though not really necessary.)

Can you give some examples of how they would be "sensitive", I don't understand.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Mongoose -

This is one of those topics in which some members of VFTT feel very strongly about.

Without offering an opinion, there are hiking clubs which do provide extensive detail regarding routes, trailheads and other features. For example, the HPS (Hundred Peaks Section) of the Angeles chapter of the Sierra Club offers viewable information in .tpo format in National Geographic's map software. It can be converted to MapSource formats for Garmin users. Their info covers hundreds of peaks. I've found the most useful aspect of this files is the location of the "trailhead", which is typically not an issue in the NE. That same chapter makes available info on desert peaks in the SW in 4 states and northern Mexico via the Desert Peaks Section (DPS), but at a cost of $30.

The above links might provide templates for how to present information in the event you proceed with your project.

 

[David Metsky]

Can you give some examples of how they would be "sensitive", I don't understand.

Starting points for bushwacks to ecologically sensitive and currently rarely traveled locations, plane crash sites, former shelter sites, abandoned trails, hidden powder stashes, old logging camps - anything that would attract travel to a place the currently has little due to obscurity or difficulty finding it.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once these coordinates hit the web there will be more traffic to some of these areas. For better or worse, this type of information changes hiking patterns.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Starting points for bushwacks to ecologically sensitive and currently rarely traveled locations, plane crash sites, former shelter sites, abandoned trails, hidden powder stashes, old logging camps - anything that would attract travel to a place the currently has little due to obscurity or difficulty finding it.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once these coordinates hit the web there will be more traffic to some of these areas. For better or worse, this type of information changes hiking patterns.

Your points are well-taken. An advantage of a well-run registry is to not post those sites, such as the ones above, as well as any on private or otherwise restricted access land. As always, the devil's in the details. In the far West, the Angeles Chapter of the Sierra Club establishes criteria for what is published. It's a large chapter, some 54,000 members, but if nothing else, it's sensitive to private ownership of land. It would behoove some quasi-public organization, such as the AMC, to take on this registry function. Otherwise, sooner or later, this info will be published.

Of course, this wouldn't prevent someone or some entity from publishing the 'juicy bits' but it would probably reduce the chances.

Mongoose - are you open to having a dialogue with those who'd rather some info be restricted, assuming you were to proceed with your idea?

 

[Mongoose]

Mongoose - are you open to having a dialogue with those who'd rather some info be restricted, assuming you were to proceed with your idea?

Definitely. I've already thought about having volunteer admins or some kind of "voting" system to clear out invalid or unethical way points. My concern was waypoints creating a negative environmental impact like marking illegal campsites, points going off trail above treeline (although in the winter with enough snow these points could be ok), etc.

 

[David Metsky]

Your points are well-taken.

To be clear, I wasn't criticizing anything you wrote or the database out west. I was trying to answer Paradox's question to Doug.

People are going to post this stuff, there's really no way to avoid that. Trying to limit the spread of that info always opens the hiking community to the charge of being elitist. It's a delicate balance, one that I think about each time I post about trips to places that are "off the map".

 

[Kevin Rooney]

To be clear, I wasn't criticizing anything you wrote or the database out west. I was trying to answer Paradox's question to Doug.

People are going to post this stuff, there's really no way to avoid that. Trying to limit the spread of that info always opens the hiking community to the charge of being elitist. It's a delicate balance, one that I think about each time I post about trips to places that are "off the map".

No problem, Dave. I didn't take your comments as a criticism, but rather as an explanation to the good doctor.

And to restate - I not offering an opinion on Mongoose's proposal. Rather, if he does choose to go ahead with it, then what the SC does could act as a template.

I do think his proposal is worth debating the pros and cons, however. And, as I said before, sooner or later, someone is going to do it.

 

[Woody]

I find that using my National Geographic Topo software to export waypoints from my computer to my GPS usually gets me very close to the actual location for what I was trying to waypoint. It also adds some fun to my trip planning. I will usually reset the waypoint when I get to the actual location.

 

[DougPaul]

I find that using my National Geographic Topo software to export waypoints from my computer to my GPS usually gets me very close to the actual location for what I was trying to waypoint. It also adds some fun to my trip planning.

This is essentially what I do, except that I may use NG Topo or Garmin Mapsource. I also occasionally place a waypoint manually from the front panel if I am only placing one or am away from my computer.

IMO, there are significant advantages to placing one's own waypoints--one practices one's own navigation as well as becoming familiar with the area. (Some of the recent incidents in the Whites might not have happened if the victims had a better mental map of the area.) A hiking magazine has recently been publishing off-trail trip plans with GPS waypoints leading to the possibility that hikers without adequate navigation skills will go in relying solely on GPS waypoints. A recipe for epics/disasters...


Re sensitive locations, I think Dave has explained it adequately.

Doug

 

[Paradox]

Mongoose, I have found the solution and its a good one.

http://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/spatialArtifacts.do

Its a website run by Google not only for waypoints but also for tracks and photos. You can download them into your mapsource software.

 

[Mongoose]

That's pretty cool. That's better than what I would have written. All it needs is more waypoints now.

 

[Paradox]

That's pretty cool. That's better than what I would have written. All it needs is more waypoints now.

Concur, I put in 20 hikes over the past few days and I'll put in some more.

heres the link again:wikiloc

 

[hikingmaineac]

I don't know if this is the correct place for this request, but here goes:

I just bought a Garmin Nuvi GPS unit for our car and am looking to pre-load it with trailhead waypoints. I downloaded and installed Garmin's POILoader program and now I'm wondering if there's an easy way to go about doing this such as downloading one big file with all the points already in it?

Any advice/help would be appreciated...

Thanks!