Graham,Doubletop,Big Indian,Fir question

[Motabobo]

Hello there !

I'm reading different reports as of how to hike those summits. My first question is which is the easiest way to hike them ?

Combine, Doubletop & Big Indian or combien Graham and Doubletop ?
Combien Balsam Lake with Graham ?
Combine Big Indian & Fir or hike Fir alone ?

I was thinking doing Doubletop, Big Indian & Fir on the first day, then do Graham, Balsam Lake on the second day but I'm open to suggestions.

There is also a couple of trails that can be used.
Anyone has advices on this and/or directions ?

Thanks

 

[hermit]

I enjoyed hiking Fir,Big Indian,and Doubletop from Biscuit Brook and returning on the blue trail.It was a decent day out. I usually hike Graham and Balsam Lake together,about 9 miles but not too much vertical,maybe a tad over 2000'.Enjoy! By the start of the herd path for Big Indian,you can follow the property/state land boundary to the South pk. of Doubletop,and then a compass reading North to the canister on the north pk. There is a plane wreck on the south pk.near the herd path.

 

[Motabobo]

I enjoyed hiking Fir,Big Indian,and Doubletop from Biscuit Brook and returning on the blue trail.It was a decent day out. I usually hike Graham and Balsam Lake together,about 9 miles but not too much vertical,maybe a tad over 2000'.Enjoy! By the start of the herd path for Big Indian,you can follow the property/state land boundary to the South pk. of Doubletop,and then a compass reading North to the canister on the north pk. There is a plane wreck on the south pk.near the herd path.

Isn't the seager trail shorter to get to Big Indian ? So you're saying I should follow the boundary line straight to the south summit of Doubletop, so i'll be leaving it for the north summit right ? Is there an herd path all along ? What about Fir ?
Thanks

 

[Mark Schaefer]

Graham works very well with Balsam Lake Mt as Balsam Lake is such a short hike by itself. The old road to Graham is quite easy to follow. It is also possible to add Doubletop to that pair -- if you like the idea of hiking through an area which is quite wild and visited by few hikers. If you hike from Quaker Clearing you can do a loop by returning down the Beaver Kill.

Doubletop is more easily done with Big Indian. As Ralph recommended the easiest approach is along the state land boundary. There is no continuous herd path to Doubletop, although the property line might resemble one in places. You will pass through Pigeon Notch with a nice hemlock grove.

Big Indian is about 0.2 mile closer to the Seager trailhead vs. the Biscuit Brook trailhead. The stream crossings on the Seager trail can be more challenging vs. Biscuit Brook which normally has no problem crossings. Choice of trailhead often depends on whether you are adding Eagle or Fir. If you are climbing Fir then it may make sense to start at Biscuit Brook. There are no continuous herd paths. Some paths are forming between the lean-to area and Fir. The climb of Fir from the lean-to is not difficult even if you do not see or follow any paths. Finding the narrow saddle between Fir and Big Indian can be a bit of a challenge as it is not evident on the summit ridge of Fir. A little side-hilling is often necessary once you spot the saddle. Most hikers prefer the order of Fir, Big Indian, Doubletop (out and back), then return on the blue trail.

Another route to Doubletop is to follow the property line from the sharp bend on the blue trail down to Biscuit Brook. Then continue on the property line to Pigeon Brook. From there you can head up the attractive Pigeon Brook with some waterfalls and cascades before heading up Doubletop. Or you can cross Pigeon Brook and continue straight ahead up to the well defined path that leads from the Frost Valley YMCA up to the two summits of Doubletop. Either of these two routes involves more climbing - so may not be that attractive if you want to do the three peaks in a day hike. I often prefer climbing Doubletop first, as I find the Big Indian route to Fir a bit easier to find than the reverse.

 

[Raymond]

And Graham is on private property. You're supposed to ask permission, but I don't know if many people do. Maybe that could be the subject of a poll: Do you a) turn back, b) trespass, or c) enter with your permission slip in your pocket?

We didn't enter when we had the chance, so we'll be returning some day.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

Thanks for the reminder Raymond. Graham and Doubletop are both owned by the family estate of Jay Gould, the former railroad magnate. Permission to hike either mountain may be obtained from the caretaker, William J Scholl, Dry Brk Rd, Arkville, NY 12406, 845-586-4056. His phone number has been published in the Catskill 3500 newsletter, so there should be no problem posting it here. Many do hike the mountains without asking, but it keeps the 3500 club in the good graces of the Gould family if we do.

In addition to permission from Mr. Scholl, some hike in from the Frost Valley YMCA which would require additional permission from the camp. In general they do not allow hikers on their property while student groups are on site.

 

[Motabobo]

Hey thanks for the great advices.

I'm clearly going to try the col between Big Indian and Fir. So the state land boundary is obvious from the trail ? Where should I start the bushwhack from Big Indian towards Fir, directly from Big Indian summit's canister or getting back on the main trail a bit ? You are speaking of the hikes that starts in the Frost Valley YMCA, that does not include the Biscuit Brook trailhead right ?

Thanks again

 

[Jay H]

Nope, Biscuit brook trailhead is north of Frost Valley YMCA and not in their property. There is a very porous fence between the YMCA and doubletop though.

A good loop would be to start from Seager and bushwack to Graham (may be thick in some spots towards the summit) and then over to Doubletop. Then bushwack following the state park boundry more or less (plane wreck and boundary markers lead you to the south peak) back towards the trail from Biscuit Brook, then you can hit Fir and then bushwack towards Big Indian (beware of the drainage) then continue north to hit the Shandankan trail past the leanto back to Seager.

Would be a long day but certainly doable from both ends. But from Seager, it kind of avoids have to go over Doubletop twice after going over to Graham if you started at Biscuit Brook.

If you do decide to do this over two days, you have some good options for camping and you can do Balsam Lake mtn (firetower) also... But it means you'll be bushwacking with a backpack. (not a big deal except for possible thick stuff on Graham and Doubletop). Big indian and Fir are open enough not to really need a small pack.

If you do this over two days, when you are by Graham, consider taking the old access trail down towards Balsam Lake and you can stay at the lean to on the other side of Balsam Lake fire tower on the trail towards Balsam Lake itself. There is also a leanto at Shandankan creek you can stay in or probably a better location is the leanto at Biscuit Brook itself.

An interestesting 3 day two night trip, allowing for driving time is perhaps to drive to Mill brook road and simply hike Balsam Lake the first day, stay at the leanto. Second day, hike back over Balsam Lake, go do Graham, then go to Doubletop, then over to Biscuit Brook leanto. If you still have time and energy, you can slackpack to Fir to save time on the third day. Then on the third day, you can do Fir (if not before), otherwise, hike up the biscuit brook trail, tag Big Indian (really quick bushwack!) and then out on the Shandakan trail. You would then have to walk the road back to Mill Brook road though but it's a pleasant walk in the country side. (Mill brook road though will be ALL uphill!)

Jay


Jay

 

[Motabobo]

Hmm you made me wondering...If we had 2 cars, it wouldn't be a lot longer to start from the Biscuit Brook TH, then hike Fir, Big Indian, Doubletop then over to Graham & Balsam Lake then getting down towards either of the 2 trailheads of Balsam Lake, right ? My point is that going from Graham to the nearest trailhead (the one for Balsam Lake), or backtracking from Big Indian to the Biscuit Brook TH again is about the same distance, so is backtracking from doubletop towards the main trail compared to going over Graham from Doubletop...Am I wrong ?

 

[Jay H]

Yeah, that sounds doable, don't forget the added time for the car spot though. I think that would be like a 30 minute drive between the two trailheads.

If you're ending at Balsam Lake, it makes sense to spot a car at Mill Brook Road. For a two day trip, with the car spot, think about starting from Biscuit Brook, doing Fir and Big Indian, hike north to the Shandankan Leanto (if you feel good, you can go up and tag Eagle and back before turning towards the Shandankan leanto. Then on Day 2 you can go do Doubletop from there and then over to Graham and Balsam Lake if you have time, out to Mill Brook road...

Jay

 

[Motabobo]

Cool, we are thinking of that as a dayhike, then another peak on the second day. Now we need to find people for a car Think I'll post a trip event but I'm never popular with my ideas
Thanks again