Have bear cannisters had any noticeable affect in the Adirondacks

[omegaman]

General question (out of curiousity)- Regulations requiring bear cannisters in the high peaks region of the Adirondacks have been in place for a while (year or so?). Has the change had any noticeable impact in the behavior of bears in troublesome areas such as Marcy Dam or Lake Colden areas? Is it too soon to tell and if it is does anyone have a feel for how long the DEC might expect before a bear's behavior is modified?

Thanks

 

[nartreb]

In other words, how long before bears learn that it's pointless to raid campgrounds?

This particular scenario fits in the category of "behavioral extinction". Having once learned that campground = food, how long does it take to unlearn it?

It depends on several factors, most notably the frequency of reinforcement of that lead to the learned behavior (campground visits) in the first place. The hardest behaviors to extinguish (unlearn) are those created by variable-rate reinforcement, where you have to keep trying again and again to get a reward that doesn't come on any predictable schedule. (Slot machines work on this principle.) If the bear is used to finding food on one of twenty visits to a campground, he can be expected to visit at least twenty more times (probably forty) before he figures out that something's changed. Since "one in twenty" is an average and not a predictable schedule, multiply that by several times - the bear has no way of knowing he's not just having an unlucky streak.

The harder a bear had to work before for free food, the harder he'll keep working before he learns it's gone. If he'd been getting a handout every night, he'd probably give up in a week (though he might try again once or twice later). Getting a handout about once a month on no particular schedule - likely to keep trying for a year at least.

Bears surely understand that camper-food is a seasonal item, like blueberries, so time elapsed in the off-season won't count.

In the real world, as opposed to the lab, availability of other food sources plays a role too, though I suspect that blueberries and other easy foods aren't nearly as tempting as marshmallows and steaks.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

It's way too early to tell. They only became mandatory mid-summer last year, and they only started enforcing it this year. Given that the season is just starting......

But also, it's not a black and white start. Even before it became law, there were a lot of people using them, and after the law is in place, there are still some NOT using them.

If you're curious about how well they work, I'm sure you could find studies of their effectiveness in California.

 

[sleeping bear]

When I was there last summer we had canisters. Three out of the five nights we were there someone near us had their bear bags ripped apart and the food eaten. Our canisters were left untouched.

Do you think that with the use of canisters the situation will get worse before it gets better? As in the bears get pissed at the lack of an easy meal and become more aggressive? After a while I imagine that would taper off, say after a month or so, maybe the summer. There will probably always be someone who's still using a bear bag for whatever reason (think hiking to a closed hut). If psychology proves true won't that intermittent reward entice the bears to look harder?

 

[bubba]

Yesterday on Percious' Trip Report I posted that he should have had a canister. This is still a new concept -- and not all are prepared. However, I'm of the opinion that it is a good thing and the there is a reformation happening in the woods. If people are careless, it will take just that much longer. Like smoking, the bears are going to go through withdrawl. I want to see that happen, so pack it up in a canister (as much as they are a bit of a pain).

 

[Pete_Hickey]

.... If psychology proves true ...

Just remember that HUMAN psychology does not necessarily apply to animals.

 

[sleeping bear]

Just remember that HUMAN psychology does not necessarily apply to animals.

I believe mice have been the subjects for much of that type of conditioning. It's been shown that intermittent rewarding causes the same behavior in most animals. However, I am certainly no doctor.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

However, I am certainly no doctor.

But you are a bear

 

[JoeCedar]

Canister Rentals

For those who are not ready to purchase, or camp infrequently, or don't like the canister cost, canister rentals are available at the Montaineer, Loj Campers/Hikers Building, and EMS in Lake Placid. At the Mountaineer, it costs $7 for 3 days, similar to a day's worth of packaged food (for you not the bear).

 

[deanmacg]

I took a leadership training course at LOJ last year and the ranger was there talking about the cannisters and the new regs. I asked him how many bears we were talking about. Any guesses? Answer below.



















6

 

[bubba]

Dean, are you saying that there were only 6 bears that they felt were the menacing ones?? Man, there's an interesting piece of information. I've never giving it a thought, really. How many bears are out there?? Are bears territorial (in a preemptive way)?

 

[Chip]

I took a leadership training course at LOJ last year and the ranger was there talking about the cannisters and the new regs. I asked him how many bears we were talking about. Any guesses? Answer below.
6

The Adirondacks are home to the largest black bear population in New York State. Your instructor may have been referring to problem, tagged or tatooed bear that were on "the short list". Although 6 bear at Marcy Dam would be about one for each lean-to, so that'd be enough.

I called the NY DEC yesterday because I couldn't find any published sightings/encounters numbers like we have in CT (by town !). The woman made it clear that actual numbers were not published. It dawned on me that CT does not have a bear hunting season and NY does, so they probably keep the numbers there more private than we do. She also made it clear that - far and away - bear problems reported in NY were primarily associated with bird feeders on private property, not on the trail.

 

[Chip]

How many bears are out there?? Are bears territorial (in a preemptive way)?

Based on estimated population (5500 bear in NY and 550 in CT, approx.) that is ABOUT 1 bear every 10 square miles in both states. Adirondacks has a higher concentration so maybe 1 every 5 square miles there. The problem with tranquilizing and moving bear is that the same bear returns or another fills the empty space quickly.

Females with cubs tend to have restricted home ranges which average six to 19 square miles, while males move about widely in home ranges of 12 to 60 square miles. The size of a home range varies geographically and often depends on the quality of habitat. Most ranges are used by more than one bear, but specific areas are rarely used at the same time.

 

[deanmacg]

6 "problem" bears in the Marcy Damn/ Avalanche Lake corrider extending to the Flowed lands. Of course there`s hundreds of "normal" bears in the high peak area - we just haven`t gotten around to training them yet.

 

[Pete Hogan]

Smoking bears too?

Like smoking, the bears are going to go through withdrawl. -- bubba

I'm actually relieved and happy that the DEC has decided to try to put an end to Adirondack smoking bears. With a rediscovered natural diet (from campers using canisters) and less tar and nicotine from the ban on smoking bears, the old and young bruins will be healthier and live longer.

 

[funkyfreddy]

Let's remember who is really responsible for "problem" bears.... it's sloppy campers/irresponsible humans. The so-called problem bears are the intelligent ones that have found an easier way to get food for themselves and their offspring.

It will probably take a while for the regulations to have a noticeable effect....Even if they are strictly enforced that still doesn't prevent the small minority of sloppy campers from leaving food in lean-to's or food at campsites

 

[Bob]

Yosemite perceptions

The last time I backpacked in Yosemite I was amazed the effect the canister regulations had in such a short time. I complained when forced to comply, but now I believe in their effectiveness.

 

[bubba]

Okay, then that's it... we're going to shoot the sloppy campers and dole out tobacco products to the smoking bears! (you're on my list now, Pete )

Chip, interesting info and about what I sensed the situation was. 6 - 60 square miles... that's certainly plenty of terrain! I guess "quality of habitat" is significant around ADK high use areas!! And, I guess free-range is probably what I thought they were... just didn't apply the term.

 

[snowshoe]

I think it will always be a problem. It can be limited but never solved. You will always have those few people who do not listen and keep food out or drop food and not clean it up. It does not matter how strict the enforcement is on the issue. Just the smells of everyone cooking is enough to atract bears. You just have to learn to live with them. After all it is a people problem not a bear problem. Their land is being developed at a fast rate. Plus the food supply is so good between the sloppy campers and garbadge. 20 years ago the mother bears would have 1-2 cubs. Now becasue the food supply is so good they have an average of 3-4 cubs and I have even seen 5 cubs.

 

[deanmacg]

Being made to use a can will help the camper too. How many people have yo run across hiking out from the Marcy Dam area bitchin that their trip was cut short by "those _____ bears" You gotta laugh at them. I`ve got a can and I use it everywheres in the `Daks. I`d be kicking myself in the rear if my plans were upset by a bear getting my food.