Hiker Killed near Hunter Mt

[CrisisBill]

A hiker was killed as a result of a fall near Hunter, Times Herald Record http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090614/NEWS/90614004

 

[Tom Rankin]

A hiker was killed as a result of a fall near Hunter, Times Herald Record http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090614/NEWS/90614004

Kaaterskill falls is a dangerous place! It is totally eroded in many places around that area. I wish they would go in and create one good trail, and mark off the places that are especially dangerous.

 

[John H Swanson]

Kaaterskill falls is a dangerous place! It is totally eroded in many places around that area. I wish they would go in and create one good trail, and mark off the places that are especially dangerous.

I think that would be worthwhile. How many more injuries and deaths do we need to see at this location before an intervention occurs?

 

[askus3]

Kaaterskill Falls

Photos 549-555 of this album were taken at Kaaterskill Falls. These pictures show the immensity and height of these spectacular falls. But if you fall off from the top - you are doomed! Link.

 

[WinterWarlock]

Pretty good write-up of the history of falls there by Mark Schaeffer at ADKHP

Small consolation to the family, but what a beautiful place -

Tom - have you thought about contacting the DEC about this?

 

[una_dogger]

We were first in the line of cars coming down the mountain saturday.
The scene was grim and sobering.
Tragic.

 

[Tom Rankin]

But if you fall off from the top - you are doomed!

Scott, Aaron, amazingly, there have been survivors who fell from the top. And sued!

 

[WinterWarlock]

Unbelievable Tom -

I don't want to make any judgment in this case, but if you read the book "Deaths in Yosemite" (a compilation of all reported deaths in Yosemite Park) it's amazing how many people die while leaning over the top of falls to take pictures, despite the warning signs and fences. You can't protect people from themselves...

Still, it is sad and tragic, and my condolences to the family.

 

[DSettahr]

The problem with the DEC going in and putting in fences and marking off dangerous areas is if they do it in one spot, then sooner or later, they would be found liable in other areas on public land, and would have to do the same thing at every similar location on state land through out New York State. T-Lake falls in the West Canada Lakes Wilderness Area, while a bit more remote, is a similar destination that has had several fatalities at it over the years. People try to get closer to the edge for a better look, and slip on the wet moss and end up sliding over the edge. Think about all of the locations in the High Peaks where someone could potentially slip and fall, and how the character of those locations would be changed in the state had to go in and put up warning signs and take precautions to prevent people from getting too close to the edge.

 

[lumberzac]

The problem with the DEC going in and putting in fences and marking off dangerous areas is if they do it in one spot, then sooner or later, they would be found liable in other areas on public land, and would have to do the same thing at every similar location on state land through out New York State. T-Lake falls in the West Canada Lakes Wilderness Area, while a bit more remote, is a similar destination that has had several fatalities at it over the years. People try to get closer to the edge for a better look, and slip on the wet moss and end up sliding over the edge. Think about all of the locations in the High Peaks where someone could potentially slip and fall, and how the character of those locations would be changed in the state had to go in and put up warning signs and take precautions to prevent people from getting too close to the edge.

DEC did end up closing the trail to T-Lake Falls.

 

[DSettahr]

DEC did end up closing the trail to T-Lake Falls.

When DEC "closes" a trail, it just means it doesn't get maintenance. It doesn't mean you can't follow the trail. It's the same situation as at Kaaterskill Falls, there used to be a trail up to the top of the falls that was closed, but it doesn't mean that people aren't allowed to climb up.

There's some new wording concerning "closed" areas in the updated state land use regs though that sounds like it might change what a "closed" trail means.

In fact enough people still go to T-Lake Falls that the route is quite easy to follow.

 

[lumberzac]

When DEC "closes" a trail, it just means it doesn't get maintenance. It doesn't mean you can't follow the trail. It's the same situation as at Kaaterskill Falls, there used to be a trail up to the top of the falls that was closed, but it doesn't mean that people aren't allowed to climb up.

There's some new wording concerning "closed" areas in the updated state land use regs though that sounds like it might change what a "closed" trail means.

In fact enough people still go to T-Lake Falls that the route is quite easy to follow.

Ah, I wasn't aware that the trail at Kaaterskill Falls was also "closed." I don't get down to the Catskills too often. Hopefully any modifications to the regulations wound prohibit visiting these beautiful, but dangerous places.

 

[DSettahr]

Ah, I wasn't aware that the trail at Kaaterskill Falls was also "closed."

I just meant the old trail that goes from the base of the falls to the summit that way back when was actually a part of the Escarpment Trail. The trail into the base of the falls is still a marked and designated trail.

 

[peakbagger]

Please consider revising the thread title. Generally "Hiker Killed" would imply some deliberate or accidental external force killed the individual, be it animal, person or item.

This item sounds as though some unfortunate individual died as a result of an accident on a mountain. Granted the trail conditions may have been treacherous, but it sounds more like an accident than a deliberate act.

 

[Adk_dib]

Trenton Falls in central NY used to be visited by Vice Presidents and europeon Royalty. Until to many people fell to their death and they closed it. It is now open two days a year and is crowded so much during those 2 days you cant enjoy it. I went up to the second falls at kaaterskill and the trail was 6 inches wide, muddy and about 6 inches from a large fall. They should either fix the trail or make people stop at the bottom.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Please consider revising the thread title. Generally "Hiker Killed" would imply some deliberate or accidental external force killed the individual, be it animal, person or item.

This item sounds as though some unfortunate individual died as a result of an accident on a mountain. Granted the trail conditions may have been treacherous, but it sounds more like an accident than a deliberate act.

I agree that a change of thread title is needed. Anytime you have the key words HIKER, KILLED, and HUNTER in the same title, there's bound to be a misunderstanding. If it was an accident, something like "Hiker Dies in Fall..." or similar, might be better.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

Pretty good write-up of the history of falls there by Mark Schaeffer at ADKHP

This is an updated version of my post on AdkHP. That website has been unavailable since about midday on June 15, so I will post it here.

Anyone familiar with that trail? I'm mean, I know some of you are, but..... how bad is it?

The narrow path in question is bad enough that it has been officially closed for about 40 years. But each year hundreds of casual walkers and hikers (including me and many of us here) go beyond the end of the blazed trail and safely make the scramble up to this closed path. As others have cited; there are accidents nearly year (some serious) with perhaps 1-2 fatalities per decade.

The Kaaterskill Falls is a double waterfall (click on the thumbnails for larger photos):


The upper falls is about 175' high and the lower is about 85' high. The currently marked trail from NY-23A is 0.41 long (per the new Venture Out map) to the base of the lower falls. Until about 1987 this trail was part of the Escarpment Trail. A short distance back from the base of the lower falls the Escarpment Trail climbed to the top of the upper falls. This section of the Escarpment was abandoned because it became too eroded and for liability concerns. When originally built in 1967 this section of the Escarpment Trail had a short and narrow yellow blazed side trail led to the "amphitheater" behind upper falls. That yellow trail was abandoned about 40 years ago because it was deemed too dangerous for the casual roadside visitors that walked into the falls. Many of the accidents at Kaaterskill Falls occur along this narrow trail abandoned 40 years ago. It is a very treacherous path when wet. It had rained off and on for several days prior to the accident on Saturday.

The narrow trail can be seen in the following photo which was taken from the top of the 175' upper falls looking down. The trail can be seen just right of center as it turns a corner coming into the large amphitheater behind the upper falls.


This is a view from the narrow unmarked path going behind the upper falls:


Some accidents do occur behind the upper falls, but these tend to be minor. Accidents there are usually slides or tumbles down a steep slope. This portion of the trail receives much spray from the falls, and the wind sometimes blows the entire upper falls onto the path:

The motion of the falls on a windy day can be seen in this
Slide show.

A fatal 60' fall would probably have occurred on the narrow path before the sharp turn into the amphitheater, or from near the top of the lower falls. From the narrow path it is possible to hike down to the top of the 80' lower falls.

Some other prior accidents were discussed on VFTT.

• 1/4/04 fall at the 85' lower falls
• 10/15/04 fall from the 175' upper falls
• 7/03/05 fall from the 85' lower falls

 

[Mark Schaefer]

Some additional thoughts. The state is essentially between a rock and a hard place. If they maintained a path it would encourage more visitors. That would lead to more erosion, expose more people to the hazard of a fall, and increase the potential liability of the state. The DEC has posted signs at the end of the current trail asking and warning people not to proceed further.

When I first hiked here in 1974, the narrow trail into the amphitheater was already unmaintained. But because it was readily visible from the then open section of the Escarpment Trail it still attracted many visitors. It was very common to find large groups picnicking and partying on weekends in the amphitheater. The large number of visitors clearly was causing erosion on the narrow path. The DEC did the right thing to officially close (not maintain) this section of the Escarpment Trail. The number of visitors going into the amphitheater has declined as a result.

It would take a monumental trail construction effort to provide a "safe", normal width trail, perhaps with secure railings, etc. Such a trail would also be expensive to maintain. The further question would be, could the amphitheater path behind the upper falls ever be made "safe" without seriously degrading the scenic value of the waterfalls. That ledge is extremely narrow, has limited headroom in places, and is highly vulnerable to erosion. Further do we want Kaaterskill Falls to look like Watkins Glen State Park (stone stairs, tunnels, railings, etc.)?

There are numerous historical paintings, drawings, photos, poems, and descriptions of the waterfalls. The descriptions go back to the legends of Natty Bumppo and Rip Van Winkle. In the days of the old, great hotels there was initially a set of ladders and later concrete stairs that led from the Laurel House down to the amphitheater. There are historic images of men in three piece suits and women in hoop skirts visiting the amphitheater. The condition of the stairs declined along with the hotels, and the DEC removed the remnants as they had become had become unsafe and unmaintainable due to nearby erosion. But those images are well documented in many books on the Catskills. So the beauty and secrets of Kaaterskill Falls are well known, and many still want to see those sights.

Perhaps the warning signs could be more explicit, but without further encouraging the yahoos. The public is currently warned, but the area is not completely closed to those capable of safely accessing the fragile areas. So I believe the current DEC approach may be the best of the many imperfect possible solutions.