Who is removing the pipes at the springs in the Cats?

[paul ron]

I've noticed in the past couple years that pipes at the springs in the Catskills are being removed. These pipes have been in place for well over 30 years. It doesn't make sence to install giant stair cases, disturbing the areas pulling up boulders, but yet pull out pipes. WHY???

Mark, have you noticed this, you have any ideas on this?

 

[imarchant]

my guess

I don't know who is doing it, but there is a common misconception that water from springs is safe to drink without filtration. The DEC has stated that ALL water should be filtered. I assume that the reason the pipes are being removed is so that the assumption is eliminated.

 

[Artex]

I hope that doesn't include the one located on the side of Slide Mt. on the side facing Cornell. That one is a God-send.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I hope that doesn't include the one located on the side of Slide Mt. on the side facing Cornell. That one is a God-send.

I guess you mean it will be more difficult to access. There will still be water there.

FWIW, there are still 2 pipes on Balsam Lake Mountain, near the lean-to.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

I assume it is the DEC removing the pipes. The pipe at the base of the ladders, just east of the Slide summit is gone. IIRC the Peekamoose pipe is also gone. Water still flows, but is a little more difficult to access.

Some other pipes that still existed as of late summer 2005 are on the Becker Hollow bypass / summit connector, and the one on the Dutcher Notch trail (a short distance off the Escarpment Trail). Like Balsam Lake Mt, these are both currently in Wild Forests and not Wilderness Areas - perhaps that is part of the reason.

The Catskill Master Plan (August 2003 draft) mentions that the UMPs would address protection of spring seeps (and other environmentally sensitive areas) from overuse or inappropriate uses. I did a quick look through the few Catskill wild forest UMPs that are online (no Catskill wilderness area are online unfortunately), and I did not see any mention of pipe removal. The Windham HP plan had mentioned that the Elm Ridge spring was to be rehabilitated in the 1990s (and that was done). Next time anyone sees a ranger in the Catskills you might want to ask them this question - they should have the scoop on this.

 

[Woody]

I remember going with my mother to a pipe from a spring near Gilford NH back in the early 70's. The water was always delicious and cold. Today I can't imagine not having a warning to filter or treat the water (although I don't always). I would imagine that there are houses built on that site today. The pipe was right near the side of a dirt road with the stream coming down a hill.

 

[Jay H]

There is a spring on Indian Hill in Sterling Forest right off the road... coming out of a pipe and I will bike and hike by there and see lots of folks going there with gallon jugs, igloo coolers, etc. filling up. I bet they don't go home and filter for 3 hours!

Jay

 

[Pete_Hickey]

There is a spring on Indian Hill in Sterling Forest right off the road... coming out of a pipe and I will bike and hike by there and see lots of folks going there with gallon jugs, igloo coolers, etc. filling up. I bet they don't go home and filter for 3 hours!

Sounds like King Philip's Spring, just off the Northway.

BTW, do ou'all know why there is a fence around it, and why it was closed some 25-30 years ago? It seems that people would stop from their drive, get some water, and take a dump in the woods... right above the spring... The DEC "closed" the spring for a few years, then built a fence, so that you have to crap at least a few hundred feet from the spring.

 

[TCD]

(I know I'm continuing the hijack of this Catskill thread...)

I drink King Philip's Spring water all the time (even though the pipe has a little green stuff in it), and I've never experienced any ill effects in about 22 years of drinking it.

There used to be a "King Philip's Spring" historical sign at the spring (something about "stopping threre to water the men and horses"). That disappeared quite a number of years ago. At the time, I was curious and I contacted DEC to ask if there was some issue with the spring. After I pushed a little, DEC told me that they actually did periodically test that water (at that time, years ago), because it was known to be used by so many people, and that it was fine. Don't know if anyone still tests it (and I still don't know what happened to the sign).

As an indicator of continuing maintenance, in the last two or three years a concrete pad and a drain hole have been added below the pipe.

With the number of people that use that spring, I think if there was any issue with the water, it would make the news pretty fast.

TCD

 

[woodstrider]

I noticed last fall that the pipe spring on Slide Mtn in the Catskills was removed. I suspect the the new ranger there is doing a strict interpertation of the Master Plan (or Slide Mountain Unit Plan).

These changes won't upset the experienced hiker, and may serve to make the less experienced ones more alert to their water needs- for as you all know, even the most dependable of pipe springs can go dry.

 

[paul ron]

Removing the pipes doesn't make any sence at all. If overuse is an issue and being "all natural" is the reason, then why are stairs being built into trails? Those stupid stairs cause more damage in their construction and also invite heavy use, I also see many potential camping sites are now posted with yellow No Camping discs. Discourage camping but invite more people on the trails?

Next time up I'll try to catch one of the rangers by the ear to find out what is going on. The pipes that are being removed have been in place since as far back as I can remeber in the 70s.

I'm bushwacking from now on, I don't need no stinking trail markers.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Removing the pipes doesn't make any sence at all.

If the DEC works the same way in the Catskills as in the Adirondacks (I know ou don't have the APA), sense does not come into it at all. Conforming objects is not based on logic. It is based on a list. The list is produced by a committee.... Ansd you know what they say about committees, right? (A camel is a horse designed by a committee)

Next time up I'll try to catch one of the rangers by the ear to find out what is going on.

Best thing to do. It might not be the DEC, maybe they found lead in the pipes, etc. Not fair to speculate.

 

[woodstrider]

I, too, hate to see these changes brought about to the places that I have long enjoyed visiting. But- they represent changing ideas about our "wilderness" areas.

The LNT concept was new when I was new to hiking- I embraced it as I could see the potential benefits. Today we do have less trash and I find fewer garbage middens around traditional camping sites. I find only old middens now, and they will disappear eventually. Considering that more and more people are going out to a finite wilderness, LNT is a good idea, I think that most of us would agree.

Removing "signs of man", like the cannisters from the Adirondack Highpeaks and pipe springs, etc. is part of the "new" wilderness concept that the DEC and other agencies are adopting.

Sometimes a campsite is "retired" for a space of time to allow a heavily used area to recover. Sometimes a campsite is closed because it is noncomforming to new guidelines meant to protect environmentally senitive areas. These changes are meant to be of a benefit to our public lands.

With that said- I do miss the cannisters and I hope that the ones in the Catskills are not removed.

 

[moose_mckenzie]

The Catskill canisters are there because of an agreement between the Catskill 3500 Club and DEC. The latter requested that they be painted grey to make them fit in with the wilderness. A few are still red and white; eventually will be painted.

Also, DEC in the Cats is separated into two regions, 3 and 4. Often, each region behaves differently than the other.

Moose