XC glide wax - liquid vrs a solid

[Jay H]

What is the basic differences between a liquid glide wax versus a solid..

like say the differences between Swiz Easy glide and a solid Swiz F4??

Does one last longer than the other? the liquids don't need to be corked as the F4 does...

I was out this past sunday and my solid wax didn't seem to be working well. But a friend had the Easy Glide stuff that seemed to work better but had to be reapplied often. Both are universal, or so they claim...

These are on waxless skis, if that matters.

Jay

 

[sardog1]

The Easy Glide is handy and quick to apply, but it will not provide as good glide as the right hard glide wax with a proper application. A universal hard glide wax will adhere a fair bit longer than the liquid and typically glides somewhat better.

Glide waxes aren't quite as finicky as grip waxes, but you still need to pay attention to the conditions when applying them. A condition-specific hard glide wax, properly applied in a few thin layers that are heated and/or corked in, will be best, but it requires more time and some practice.

Which hard wax were you using and what were the snow conditions -- temp, moisture quantity, new vs. old, etc., etc.

Yeah, I know, you were trying to avoid the whole waxing black hole, right?

EDIT: Here's a readable, useful guide to Waxing For Glide. Just recognize that its flat admonition to "never touch the middle of a waxless ski (where the waxless grip surface is) with any kind of glide wax!" doesn't apply if you're using Easy Glide.

 

[DougPaul]

Best to least good:
* Ironed (melted) in solid wax, scraped and brushed smooth
* Solid wax, crayoned on and corked smooth
* Paste wax, applied, allowed to dry, and polished
* liquid wax, allowed to dry, and polished

Polishing can be done with something as simple as a paper towel. The polishing (or corking) also serves to momentarily melt the wax and fuse it into the base.

The better methods glide and grip better and last longer. The better methods also take a bit more work (but any of the last 3 takes only a few minutes--only the first is any significant amount of work).

Swix F4, for instance, is available in all of the above forms: http://www.swixsport.com/eway/defau...nContent_6179&MainContent_6179=6117:0:24,2722

BTW, you can also get away without polishing/smoothing--the snow will also polish the wax. (However, part of the purpose of ironing or corking is to spread the wax out into a thin layer too.)

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Note that Universal Wax, while better than no wax, is not likely to be ideal in all conditions. Today I skied Waterville Valley. By all accounts of the weather, it was a Swix CH6 day. Earlier in the day, and in the shade, the snow was very "sharp" (squeaky), and probably warranted a colder wax (CH4), while later in the day, and where the sun had warmed things, CH6 was perfect.

Late winter / early spring is tough to wax for because you get vast differences in snow temps, conditions, etc. You have to be prepared to "stall" or "brake" when you go from sun to shade, and prepared to have your feet slide forward when you hit a sunny patch.

Ironing not only melts the wax, but it expands the 'pores' in a sintered base (found on better skis) which gets the wax in deeper, and therefore it holds on better once cool and solid.

Waterville Valley offers a free wax clinic at least once or twice per winter. Highly recommended. If you just go downstairs to the rental / waxing area, you should be able to watch people as they wax.

Tim

 

[Rick]

Best to least good:
* Ironed (melted) in solid wax, scraped and brushed smooth
* Solid wax, crayoned on and corked smooth
* Paste wax, applied, allowed to dry, and polished
* liquid wax, allowed to dry, and polished

Polishing can be done with something as simple as a paper towel. The polishing (or corking) also serves to momentarily melt the wax and fuse it into the base.

The better methods glide and grip better and last longer. The better methods also take a bit more work (but any of the last 3 takes only a few minutes--only the first is any significant amount of work).

Swix F4, for instance, is available in all of the above forms: http://www.swixsport.com/eway/defau...nContent_6179&MainContent_6179=6117:0:24,2722

BTW, you can also get away without polishing/smoothing--the snow will also polish the wax. (However, part of the purpose of ironing or corking is to spread the wax out into a thin layer too.)

Doug

DP is right on. I usually buy a big block of pink (CH6?) every 3-4 years and slowly use it up ironing and scraping - usually doing it several times to cleanthe skiis first before melting, ironing and scraping the last layer. After I brush (nylon brush), I rub down/polish with used dryer fabric softener sheets.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

This is called a "hot scrape". The "hot scrape" method for cleaning the skis involves ironing in a soft wax (CH10 for example, CH8 will work too) and then scraping while the ski is still warm, but after the wax firms up. This pulls out dirt and impurities with the wax.

The nylon (white) brush is more of a polishing brush. The brass brush should come between a scrape and a polish.


See here for more techniques: http://www.swixschool.com


Tim

 

[trailbiscuit]

Jay - A simpler answer to your question: F4 is fluorinated; Easy Glide is not. F4 is a "higher end" product. I've had good success with F4. It's an easy to use, no non-sense product.

 

[DougPaul]

Jay - A simpler answer to your question: F4 is fluorinated; Easy Glide is not. F4 is a "higher end" product. I've had good success with F4. It's an easy to use, no non-sense product.

I tried F4 paste on my waxless skis this winter and was impressed with the glide. One day was 50F (old, wet snow) and others were near freezing (damp snow).

The fluorocarbons (regular waxes are hydrocarbons) provide greater durability and dirt resistance. Generally best at high humidities and temps.

BTW, be careful if you heat fluorocarbons, the fumes can be poisonous. You should be in a well ventilated area and wear a special mask.

Doug

 

[Jay H]

I've always used F4, but for some reason, this weekend was a problem... But then again, I was applying the wax in the field in the middle of a little snow flurry. I was probably rushing and not doing a good job.

The temps near Waterbury, VT was just about freezing and the snow was a loose powder. Later in the day, we had a snow squal, the temps dropped like a rock, that lasted like 15 minutes but this was earlier in the morning.

Jay

 

[Pete_Hickey]

The real advantage of the liquid stuff, is that you can carry it in your pack, and EASILY apply it in the backcountry. You can also use it on 'waxless' skis, in those sometimes-conditions where snow builds up on the scales. Apply it there.

Note also, that there is diminishing returns on the glide part. If you're racing, that extra 1-2% means a LOT. If in the woods, it really doesn't matter. Just about any wax will give you 90% improvement, a better wax will give improvement on that.

I race, and am set up for hot waxing with all the fancy stuff. For the backcountry, it's the durability that is important to me. I still carry a bottle of the liquid stuff, just in case.

 

[Jay H]

Pete, my F4 is much smaller than the 8oz bottle of Swix Easy Glide liquid... The F4 that I have is about a 1/3 the size of a hockey puck and has the wax on one side and the cork on the other.

Speaking of hot wax... don't inhale!
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/200...r-ski-wax-slippery-coating-may-be/?printer=1/

Jay

 

[bikehikeskifish]

There may indeed be single-digit performance improvements when going from recreational/training (i.e., Swix CH line, hydrocarbon/paraffin waxes), to the sport (LF series, low-flourine), to the speed-at-all-costs (HF series + Cera F) (note I am only familiar with Swix waxes.)

I am certain however that getting the temperature range correct (at least on groomed trails) makes a much bigger difference than single-digits. You can see this for yourself skiing from shady to sunny spots and back. This temporarily changes the right wax for the conditions, so-to-speak. It is especially noticeable in March when the nights are cold, and the shady spots remain cold, while the day warms and the snow softens in the sunny spots. There have also been days where my regular skiing partner waxed differently and it is easy to see which of us got the wax right based on who gets ahead. Usually we're pretty evenly matched.

I don't BC ski but I imagine that conditions change there too. F4 is a good, all-purpose, easy-to-apply, superior-alternative-to-no-wax product. Use it!

BTW, if anyone is interested in hot waxing 'lessons', and wants to come by my house, I can demonstrate the techniques for you.

Tim

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Pete, my F4 is much smaller than the 8oz bottle of Swix Easy Glide liquid... The F4 that I have is about a 1/3 the size of a hockey puck and has the wax on one side and the cork on the other.

I think I have a 2 ounce bottle. It is not the size as much as the ease of applying it when it is cold. Rubbing and corking just don't go as easily as pour and wipe.

Speaking of hot wax... don't inhale!
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/200...r-ski-wax-slippery-coating-may-be/?printer=1/

I got the mask that I wear when waxing with the real toxic stuff. I'm a wax geek..... wanna see my wax closet?

I am certain however that getting the temperature range correct (at least on groomed trails) makes a much bigger difference than single-digits. You can see this for yourself skiing from shady to sunny spots and back. This temporarily changes the right wax for the conditions,...

The implication there is that you would go at the same speed if you had the right wax, and this is not the case. Yes you may go faster if you had the right wax, but some conditions are slower even with the perfect wax. If this would not be the case, all races (on same course) would always have similar times.

Also... THe effect of wax is non-linear. The faster you are going, the more important the wax is. I used to have charts comparing different waxes at different speeds, and it was very interesting. If you're slogging along on a backwoods trail, the effect of the )glide) wax is much less noticeable.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The implication there is that you would go at the same speed if you had the right wax, and this is not the case. Yes you may go faster if you had the right wax, but some conditions are slower even with the perfect wax. If this would not be the case, all races (on same course) would always have similar times.

I didn't mean to imply that. Yes, it's true that cold snow is slower even with the perfect wax. It's made worse with the wrong wax. Which is still better than no wax at all.

If you really want to see first hand, put on some CH10 and go skiing at 4F, then switch to CH4 and see if it makes a difference. Or vice-versa.

Tim