Insulated Mitts

Hi all,

I’m climbing Denali next spring, and need to get myself a good pair out insulated mittens—which of course I’m also going to use for winter hiking in the Whites. There seem to be a number of choices, and frankly, I could use some advice, because I’m not familiar with the material names they frequently use.

I suspect that most of these are pretty much the same, except for the two expensive pairs, and I’m not sure that I will need what they provide. (If they really and truly are worth the money, please pipe in!)

Any advice, comments, suggestions? Putting aside fit, are all these pretty much the same, just sold by different makers, or are there actually real differences between these mitts? (Prices are MSRPs)

Mountain Hardware CIMA Mitt $80
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1431&cat=1485&prod=2764

Marmot Expedition Mitt $100
http://marmot.com/fall_2008/mens/gloves/multipurpose/expedition_mitt/info/details

OR Cornice Mitt $99
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/cornice_mitts.html

Black Diamond Mercury Mitt $83
http://www.bdel.com/gear/mercury_mitt.php

OR Alti Mitt $189
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/m_s_alti_mitts.html

Black Diamond Absolute Mitt $180
http://www.bdel.com/gear/absolute_mitt.php

Thanks!


Brian

For a single pair of mitts, I think Marmot's Expedition Mitts are about the warmest I've seen.

In practice, however, I think you'll want multiple mitts for cold weather hiking in the Whites. Get a pair of waterproof outer shells - OR makes an Expedition model that is seam-sealed. Then, carry a few pairs of mittens so that you can swap them out. Hands sweat, so you need to have dry mittens thoughout the day. I like either doubled polarfleece, or boiled wool are the warmest. The boiled wool are sold under such names as Dachstein (a location in Bavaria) or Himalaya.

And, don't forget to use the idiot cords. Some jackets have a ring near the cuff - that's where the idiot cord is attached. The second choice is making a loop around your wrist. Having them attached to either yourself or your jacket can be a critical issue in cold, windy weather when you're on the steeps and need to take your mitts off.

good luck finding Dachsteins or Himalayas in the US. I dont think they are available anymore. unless someone here knows of a source.

update: I found them!!! Ortovox must have just opened a USA web store, because they definitely werent selling them online in the US a few months ago.

http://www.ortovoxusasportswear.com/classic_wool/product.php?id=5270

To piggyback on the thread....does anybody make an XXL mitt, or an XL that's really XL? For reference, EMS's XL is too small for me (but I can get it on), and Bean's is comfy, but I can't fit more than a thin liner on underneath. Black Diamond's XL won't even go on my hand.

Hobbitling said:

good luck finding Dachsteins or Himalayas in the US. I dont think they are available anymore. unless someone here knows of a source.

update: I found them!!! Ortovox must have just opened a USA web store, because they definitely werent selling them online in the US a few months ago.

http://www.ortovoxusasportswear.com/classic_wool/product.php?id=5270

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Try googling them. I've always bought my mittens and socks at ClimbHigh in Shelburne. A quick Google showed that ClimbHigh appears to have a few pairs here.

I worn something similar to these.

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/endeavor_mitts.html

With these inside.

http://www.raggedmountain.com/proddetail.php?prod=102733&cat=231

I'm sure Ragged's shell would work well with the liners as they recommend.

http://www.raggedmountain.com/proddetail.php?prod=102728&cat=231

This combination worked well for me.

I will say that I'm not sure that there is a price to put on your hands and feet. A coulple of guys on my climb worn the Alti Mitts and loved them.


Have a great trip.

Hobbitling said:

good luck finding Dachsteins or Himalayas in the US. I dont think they are available anymore. unless someone here knows of a source.

update: I found them!!! Ortovox must have just opened a USA web store, because they definitely werent selling them online in the US a few months ago.

http://www.ortovoxusasportswear.com/classic_wool/product.php?id=5270

Click to expand...

Save yourself some money if you want boiled wool mittens. Get a cheap pair of ragg wool mittens oversize and run them through the washer and dryer. Same effect.

I use them with liners and OR shells, with hand warmers used as needed. My hands are extremely sensitive to cold, and this combination keeps them warm.

B the Hiker said:

...
I suspect that most of these are pretty much the same, except for the two expensive pairs, and I’m not sure that I will need what they provide. (If they really and truly are worth the money, please pipe in!)...

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I wouldn't scrimp on mittens for Denali, but I'd be inclined to get two pairs of one of the other choices rather than get a $189 pair of mittens.
I'm a huge fan of Marmot clothing, but I like the removable liner feature of the OR Cornice too.

A few thoughts. some already mentioned.

From my experience, hand protection is not limited to a pair of anything. It requires multiples. Like the layering system used for the core, I use the same approach to my hands. When I'm really aerobic, even in sub zero weather, I rarely wear my warmest handwear. Most the time I'm using a liner or light weight glove. I carry 2 or 3 pairs and switch them out when wet. If I am in a situation where the glove can easily get wet (bushwhacking, digging out of a spruce trap, or doing any hands on activity in weather between 25 and 30F), I wear a mitten shell of waterproof beathable either with the glove or by itself.
The critical part is moisture control. Expecially if you are on a multiple day trip like Denali. So, a waterproof shell with a down liner, imo, is not the way to go. once wet.... Understand that I use a down bag in summer and can keep it quite dry. Winter and hands is different.

When the temp is really cold or the conditions have chilled my hands to the point of numbness I switch to my "warm mitts." Interestingly enough, this happens more at the end of a wet windy day than in sub zero weather. These days I carry a smaller w/b mitten r common use and then my warm mits have a second w/b shell. This is because the larger shell of the warm mits is too large and awkward without the liners. Plus the first shell tends to be wet when I need the warm mitts.

To answer your question) I recommend:

• a pair of mitts that has a separate (double or triple) fleece liner. It faciltates layer adjustment if needed but more importantly drying.
• You should look for a size that is large enough to be easy to put on. For me, I find myself putting them on when my hands (and core) are really cold and I don't need to fight to get them on nor do I want any restriction of circulation at that time.
• The gauntlet should have an elastic to keep the powder out.
• Any cinch buckle should be able to be adjusted with your teeth and should slide easily if there is a ladder buckle
• Palms should be abrasion resistant, but not to the point of limiting use. I wear them out first. When I was last shopping, I found that some OR mits had pretty (too) rigid palms
• Palm area should be ergonomically cut. You should be sure to weigh the fit in your decision.

My pair is by Granite Gear, but I'm not smitten with them. They are okay.

If you want to be radically different, then I really recommend a pair of Gates ETP glove. The Expanded Thermal Pocket glove is a glove with stubby fingers and a larger "pocket" in the palm. They are literally designed for you to pull your fingers into the palm to keep them warm. I thought it was a great idea and bought a pair. I love them. The only performance gap is durability. In fact I intentionally don't use them much so I don't wear them out. They probably don't make them anymore, but I really love them for really cold weather.

There was posting in this forum about a company I think was in Minnesota that made custom shells selling around maybe $150.00. . Maybe someone here has the link but I couldn't find it by doing a search in this forum

kevinmac said:

There was posting in this forum about a company I think was in Minnesota that made custom shells selling around maybe $150.00. . Maybe someone here has the link but I couldn't find it by doing a search in this forum

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Granite Gear is in MN. I jumped on their website and they do not show mittens anymore. Maybe they do them as "custom" or maybe not

The company might have been in Michigan, Wisconsin or Minnesota. It was not Granite Gear. I think it was a small company.

John has covered it pretty much.

I think wool is still the best way to go. I only wear thin wool gloves at the beginning of most winter hikes and let them soak through. As long as I'm going uphill my hands stay warm. Fleece just fill up with water and become useless dead weight, although in certain circumstances (dry cold, open trail, low heat output) I'll wear fleece. I have spare wool gloves and wool mitts (I consider Dachsteins to be my "secret weapon" for warm hands) plus 2 different weights of gore-tex over-mitts with the features described above.

In a nutshell: wool, layers, spares, waterproof breathable shells.

(You can put your frozen wool mitts in a ziplock bag and keep them in your sleeping bag at night.)

Not good advice for Denali but I like to keep fresh mitts in my car. The steering wheel can be bloody cold!

If you want to consider vapor barrier stuff as an option, here's another possibility. I've not used their gloves, but I do use their VBL socks and like 'em. Regional company, too.

For cheap VBL protection, my friend just wears plastic salad gloves under his gloves or mittens.

Matt

Not sure what company you are going with, but here is the gear list from one of them:
http://www.alpineascents.com/pdf/suggested-gear.pdf

MattC said:

For cheap VBL protection, my friend just wears plastic salad gloves under his gloves or mittens.

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Other options, surgical gloves (drug store), kitchen gloves, nitrile gloves for painting (hardware store), etc.

Doug

Neil said:

(You can put your frozen wool mitts in a ziplock bag and keep them in your sleeping bag at night.)

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I normally bring a dry dish towel and wring as much water out of my wool gloves as possible. The dish towel will dry faster than the wool, albeit the next day.
EDIT: One of those highly absorbent hiker or As Seen on TV shammy towels might be better at this, but I don't own one of those yet, probably should.

Don't know about Denali. Perhaps someone who's been there will let you know what they used.

Wool, wool and more wool. I freeze in fleece mittens. Ragg wool, any type, any flavor.

Seriously, nothing keeps my hands as warm as wool whether wet or dry. For three decades I've been using wool mittens, single or double layered. I've tried high tech fleece and they pale in comparison.

For most days in winter I also use smartwool glove liners until I have to go to wool mittens. The wool glove liners allow lots of dexterity, layer nicely under under wool mitts and dry quickly with body heat. Now if I can jsut find a place where they're not as expensive because I also use them during backcounty working winter weekends and finally put a hole in one last year.

The rag wool mittens for 5.99 posted above in the Campmoor link by Pilgrim are a staple in my pack. Take several pairs, they're cheap, toasty and indestructible. And Pilgrim is right, boiled wool mitts are jsut that, knit oversized and then boiled down to size.

Your choice of shell over the wool.

kevinmac said:

Not sure what company you are going with, but here is the gear list from one of them:
http://www.alpineascents.com/pdf/suggested-gear.pdf

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What would you guess all that gear weighs?

While I thank everyone for their thoughtful replies, most didn't address the question. I carry three liners and two sets of mid-layer gloves and mitts and I have a great system that works for me.

My question is about the insulated outer mitts.

Are the ones priced the same basically the same, or are there any real differences between them?

The problem is that they are expensive, and they can be very important, and if I buy the wrong ones, I'll discover just how important they are the hard way.

I've been using OR waterproof shells, which haven't always served me well, but I haven't been willing to pony up around $100 for insulated mitts, largely because I haven't felt knowledgeable enough to make an informed decision on which pair to buy, and with six winter backpacks coming up and then Denali afterwords, I finally have to act.

So thank you very much to all those who have posted, I do appreciate the sincerity with which people approach the questions that get posted. But if anyone can address my question about the mitts in question more directly (most likely because they own a pair), I would be happy to hear your thoughts!

Brian