AMC 1922 White Mountain Guide...for free

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The 1922 version is the full book (16 MB pdf) while the 1917 version is just Part 1 (less than half the book - 3 MB pdf). Is Part II of the 1917 one available somewhere? I couldn't see it.

- darren
 
RoySwkr said:
I'll bet the 1922 book was talking about the "Black Snout" S of Shaw with a carriage road (which is still called that in more recent editions) as I doubt Plant ever owned the other one.
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I wondered if that might be so, naturally, but concluded otherwise for the following reasons.

1. "Black Snout's" stated elevation of 2,700 feet. That is exactly the number you will find for the "real" Black Snout Mtn., which is called that, on the 1931 USGS 15-Min. topo - Mt. Chocorua Quad. The closest in time I could find for the south peak of Shaw is the 1909 Winnipesaukee Quad, which affixes no name but gives the elevation as 2,790 feet.

2. The bulk of the 1922 Guide's "Ossipees" description, preceding my quoted paragraph, relates to trails around Shaw, including what sound to me like early versions of the present Mt. Shaw, Banana and Tate Connector Trails. The south peak of Shaw is indeed called "Black Snout," confusingly, by many, but the Guide does not do that, referring to it as the "south peak."

3. My quoted paragraph, having finished with the Shaw-area trails, then turns its attention to the "west portions of the Ossipee range," in essence dismissing them as off-limits due to landowner restrictions. You are right, I believe, that Plant's property stopped south of Black Snout, but his need not have been the only "private hands" alluded to in that paragraph. The context suggests that the AMC author was referring to the "west" Black Snout (if he or she even knew that the south peak of Shaw was also called that). rocket21 has noted above the existence of a trail or logging road, which can be seen on older topos, to the real Black S. in those days.

4. You yourself have uncovered useful evidence of an "observatory" (tower) on the main summit of Shaw, and it would be at least a little surprising if that research turned up no evidence of another so nearby (although I'll admit that the differences in views from the two could have induced Plant to build on both).

That said, the evidence is not overwhelmingly conclusive so your hunch could be right.
 
There's a lot more where that came from - Appalachia from 1876-1900s, multiple editions of Sweetser guides, Ticknor, Chisholm, Eastman, Osgood, Starr King, plus many other classics - Ball, Spaulding, Drake, etc. When I first found them at Google Books, I was simultaneously excited and annoyed. Years ago I spent countless hours digitizing and OCRing items in my collection, especially Appalachia Journal for easy research. What a waste of time it seems now. My collection is still better than theirs, but it's only a matter of time before they get their hands on the really rare stuff.

Motabobo said:
404 error...I'm definately blocked then ! :mad:
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I'm hosting copies of the AMC guides and can make other out of copyright works available if someone is having trouble finding or downloading them directly from Google. Just send me a PM. Here are the guides:

AMC WMG 1907 (3.55 MB)
AMC WMG 1917 (3.25 MB)
AMC WMG 1920 (13.4 MB)
AMC WMG 1922 (16.4 MB)
 
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darren said:
The 1922 version is the full book (16 MB pdf) while the 1917 version is just Part 1 (less than half the book - 3 MB pdf). Is Part II of the 1917 one available somewhere? I couldn't see it.
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jniehof said:
It was never published. They just went and did a complete second edition.
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The 1907 (1st edition) only had Part I, while as Darren says the Table of Contents for the 1917 edition shows both parts but only Part I is there although there are bogus links into Part II. Since some of the stuff that was in Part I of the 1907 edition had moved to Part II in the 1917 edition and actual page numbers are given, I'll bet a Part II was published.
 
Amicus said:
You are right, I believe, that Plant's property stopped south of Black Snout, but his need not have been the only "private hands" alluded to in that paragraph.
...
4. You yourself have uncovered useful evidence of an "observatory" (tower) on the main summit of Shaw, and it would be at least a little surprising if that research turned up no evidence of another so nearby (although I'll admit that the differences in views from the two could have induced Plant to build on both).
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I think the context is referring to the Plant estate

If you recall previous Ossipee Range notes, Iris Baird found that there were 6 towers on the Plant estate but doesn't know where they all were. There is a panorama from Shaw and old hardware on Turtleback and the ends of the Mountain View and Faraway carriage roads are other obvious choices, but that still leaves 2 which could well include "Shaw S".

If r21 or eh would post the description of Black Snout from the 1930s that might clear things up, also is there a description of Whittier in 1930s?
 
RoySwkr said:
If r21 or eh would post the description of Black Snout from the 1930s that might clear things up, also is there a description of Whittier in 1930s?
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From the 1934 AMC White Mountain Guide:
Black Snout
These prominent peaks (2,085 and 2,700 ft. respectively) in the N.W. part of the Ossipee area may be reached by driving S. from South Tamworth about 2 m. Inquiry for the trails should be made locally. Blacksnout, especially, is a striking peak, and is said to have a good path and fine view.
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Whittier (Nickerson Mountains)
The N. and E. peaks of the Ossipees appear not well-known, and considerable confusion exists as to names. The Ossipee Lake map gives the name, "Nickerson Mts.," to three summits near West Ossipee, doubtless for a pioneer settler who obtained a crown grant of this section. Grant Peak was named for an early Ossipee physician, and the peak E. of it, known locally as "Welch Mtn.," for one of Lovewell's men. The N. summit, good authority affirms, is "Whittier," being appropriately so named at a party held on the mountain in the poet's honor. The Chocorua map unfortunately labels as "Whittier" the peak lying W. across Stony Brook. On the N. slope of Mt. Whittier, separated by a short col, is an open ledge whence is a superb view of the Sandwich Range and numerous lakes. This outlook is variously known as Sheepnose, Whittier Ledge, and Larcom Ledge. It is reached by a path which leaves the highway at a sharp bend a few rods S. of the covered bridge over Bearcamp River just W. of the Mt. Whittier Inn. The path, fairly plain, ascends steadily throughthe woods about 3/4m. to the outlook.
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evilhanz said:
What a waste of time it seems now. My collection is still better than theirs, but it's only a matter of time before they get their hands on the really rare stuff.
Click to expand...
If you'd be willing to share, I could shepherd the out-of-copyright stuff through Distributed Proofreaders. I was going to do the Kilbourne book...now that Google has scanned it, it'll save me some work (still need to get decent captures of the plates, though...the copy I was scanning from had really tight binding.)

Warning: the process will be slow, but the result is lovely HTML editions with hand-checked OCR.

RoySwkr said:
Since some of the stuff that was in Part I of the 1907 edition had moved to Part II in the 1917 edition and actual page numbers are given, I'll bet a Part II was published.
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oops *redface*. You're right...I confused 1917 with 1907.
 
rocket 21 posted:

From the 1934 AMC White Mountain Guide:
Black Snout:

These prominent peaks (2,085 and 2,700 ft. respectively) in the N.W. part of the Ossipee area may be reached by driving S. from South Tamworth about 2 m. Inquiry for the trails should be made locally. Blacksnout, especially, is a striking peak, and is said to have a good path and fine view.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thanks, r21. This does clear matters up a bit. "2,085 ft." must be Larcom Mtn., since that is where it is and "2,085 ft." is its elevation on that 1931 USGS Mt. Chocorua Quad that also shows Black Snout as 2,700 ft. I am convinced that the 1922 author was referring to the "real" Black Snout, as I thought likely.

Moreover, this confirms that there was a good path and fine view there around 1934, so perhaps there was an "observatory" in 1922. On the other hand, it appears that the author (who may also have written the 1922 description) had not actually visited Black Snout.

Putting this all together, including the fact that the AMC author shows no sign of awareness that "Shaw south" was also called Black Snout (or "Snoot" on one map) by some, it occurs to me that the AMC author may have been confused in writing the 1922 description. He (or she) had heard about an "observatory" on "Black Snout," which he had not visited and naturally took to be the only peak so named on the USGS topos which he seems to have been using. This would have been a very natural mistake.

Roy: I remember your posting of Iris Baird's information as the six Ossipee towers and look forward to the happy day when they are identified.
 
Amicus said:
Roy: I remember your posting of Iris Baird's information as the six Ossipee towers and look forward to the happy day when they are identified.
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It should also be noted here that there are multiple accounts of a tower being located on Mt. Whittier (Nickerson) - I'm not sure if this would have been part of her count.
 
Amicus said:
He (or she) had heard about an "observatory" on "Black Snout," which he had not visited and naturally took to be the only peak so named on the USGS topos which he seems to have been using. This would have been a very natural mistake.
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That sounds reasonable to me. I'm not sure that Plant allowed visitors unlike Ossipee Mtn Park for which they were a revenue source. And if you read the previous description in the book which includes Tate Mtn I'll bet what they are calling the S peak of the Ossipee Range is really Mt Shaw which they haven't cottoned to.

rocket21 said:
It should also be noted here that there are multiple accounts of a tower being located on Mt. Whittier (Nickerson) - I'm not sure if this would have been part of her count.
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I think she meant 6 on the Plant estate, that doesn't mean there weren't more elsewhere as lookout towers were a fad in the late 1800s.
 
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rocket21 said:
From the 1934 AMC White Mountain Guide:
The N. summit, good authority affirms, is "Whittier," being appropriately so named at a party held on the mountain in the poet's honor. The Chocorua map unfortunately labels as "Whittier" the peak lying W. across Stony Brook.
Click to expand...

Thanks

The 1948 WMG contains a similar statement about Mt Whittier with some edits such as Mt Whittier Inn being renamed, so name confusion is not new in this range :)

It also describes the Bald Peak/Knob and Mt Shaw Trails with no mention of either Black Snout
 
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