SPOT - GPS Locator...

spider solo said:

Ahh...you can always get one and check it out .

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I'll be getting one within the next couple of months for the opening of canoe season. Not because I like being tied to technology, but because SPOT is required equipment for the Yukon 1000 canoe race I am in next July. I bypassed the $50 off sale that expired at the end of 2008, just on the off chance that an improved model comes out in 2009. At ice-out we'll begin paddling in heavy training and will practice with SPOT sending messages to our pit crew.

spider solo said:

Ahh...you can always get one and check it out .

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No thanks. I'm not $150 + $ubscription curious.

Doug

what I would really like to know...

I was just rereading this thread and it was easy to see that those of us paddling would have an advantage with reception, (though if I were paddling creeks and ravines I wouldn't be expecting it to have a signal).

The fact that the SPOT is required for the Yukon 1000 pretty much sums it up as to whether they think it's any good.

Hiking I would expect to use it on a plateau and summits or out on the barrens. So in the Northeast I would expect it to be sketchy, though hopefully better than my GPS (which I find pretty useless but I'm hanging in there with it.)

I think it's interesting to see there are competitors such as Terra Fix that was mentioned. It will be interesting to see where the technolgy takes us and what happens if a company goes out of buisness etc etc.

Some people will want a read out of their position when they send it, so someone is bound to offer it, sooner or later (at an increased price).
but
not knowing anything about chip sets and what not (I thought it was all magic)
What I really would like to know is how efficient their 911 recue system is.

The ACR Microfix Personal Locater Beacon states that they have saved 22,000 lives.
So while I'm not comparing Apples to Apples
...How can we tell with new devices and companies how good their rescue sytem is
or do they all tie into the same world wide system ??

(ps don't worry Doug Paul...I didn't pay full price, rule #1 never pay full price on anything...
also some groups will offer loaners to try them out, or if you had a friend who had a friend who knew of a fellow with one to borrow...)

spider solo said:

The fact that the SPOT is required for the Yukon 1000 pretty much sums it up as to whether they think it's any good.

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Keep in mind that 2009 is the FIRST year of the Y1K. Use of SPOT is considered an experiment for this type of race. As a back up, each crew will record several GPS marks for later analysis in case there is a time lag problem with SPOT transmissions, which would lead to a significant time penalty if it can be proven we don't stop for at least 6 hours before 2315 hrs each night.

spider solo said:

The ACR Microfix Personal Locater Beacon states that they have saved 22,000 lives.

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Umm, that's bullpucky from ACR (if it's them), to put it politely. In the ENTIRE existence of the PLB program to Nov. 21, 2008, there have been 49 (forty-nine) lives saved, per the NOAA--SARSAT Program. NOAA-SARSAT also shows an example of 54 lives saved in the Alaska PLB Program in 2001. (I tend to think the tally of 49 is for just the Lower 48 (+HI?), but I can't establish that yet. The AK program ran for several years before approval for the Lower 48 and HI.)

That 22,000 number is close to the 24,500 NOAA lists for all COSPAS-SARSAT saves worldwide since 1982. That large number includes signals from vessels at sea and downed aircraft using ELTs and similar devices.

Just to clarify, for the non-cognoscenti on the subject of emergency transmitters:

The PLB (such as the versions sold by ACR) sends a signal to SARSAT, a satellite system operated by the federal government. SARSAT operates worldwide in conjunction with the COSPAS system operated by the (Former) Empire (Formerly) Known as Evil. You don't pay a subscription for the PLB service; all of us taxpayers subsidize your risk-taking. When you activate the signal, help comes running at the direction of local official agencies who will receive the info on your situation from the feds' coordination center. Local agencies practice for PLB responses; I have participated in it.

The SPOT uses a collection of commercial satellites, and you pay a subscription fee continuously or you don't get help. In an emergency, the "Alert 9-1-1" message you send is directed from the satellite to a private, for-profit outfit called the GEOS International Emergency Response Center. Those folks will then contact "the appropriate emergency responders based on your location and personal information – which may include local police, highway patrol, the Coast Guard, our country’s embassy or consulate, or other emergency response or search and rescue teams – as well as notifying your emergency contact person(s) about the receipt of a distress signal."

There have been discussions elsewhere on VFTT and other forums about the technical efficacy of SPOT and the message routing. Personally, I'm skeptical on both parts.

nice info

I often wonder where these companies get the figures like in the case of the ACR ad (that particular ad came from Explore magazine, kind of like a Canadian backpacker mag)

Yet another question to help clarify...Is a PLB (Personel Locator Beacon) the same as an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) ??
Those where the 1st things I heard about a few years back. Are they one and the same??

Meanwhile back with the Spot device..some consider the subscription service to be pricey ($100 for basic), but I find it nominal. So each person's pocketbook will help decide that factor.
I don't want to even think how much it cost to be able to sit at this computer and type this message...or for that matter how much it cost a year to watch a TV..but it's wayyyy more than $100 a year.
Still the added cost could be "the straw that broke the camels back" for some folks, so I guess that's pretty subjective.

In some ways Spot (and other companies that are sure to spring up) are selling Peace of Mind, for family and friends, much like an insurance company does paying for a service that hopefully we will never need.

The PLB...say it cost $550 for example...is a one time out of pocket expense
that may never be used.

A SPOT like device can be used just to let loved ones know your ok or need help but not a rescue. Since you can custom the messages they can be used beyond just the rescue mode. There is thinking that thru hikers, for example, can send their ok messages from time to time and then the Help Message button for food drop offs and things like that.

Don't know how realistic that is, but I think they are marketing to the average Jill & Joe who want to use the device they have bought,
not just look at a device till the day, someday, when they might actually use it.

For me they all share the same "Achilles heel" they are all battery dependent.

As devices are being invented faster than we can possibly keep up with I look forward to the time when these kind of things are self powered or hand cranked. I think that would be a real breakthrough. Help for both the hiker and the landfill.

Here hoping...

spider solo said:

Yet another question to help clarify...Is a PLB (Personel Locator Beacon) the same as an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) ??
Those where the 1st things I heard about a few years back. Are they one and the same??

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The PLB evolved from the (sort of) unsanctioned use of EPIRBs in Alaska. Folks up there were familiar with using EPIRBs on ocean vessels large and small, as well as ELTs. They started carrying EPIRBs (and even ELTs) into the backcountry on snowmobiles, etc. To the credit of the feds, instead of throwing the book at users, they created a pilot program for a new type of hand-carried "Personal Locater Beacon." This essentially operates as the EPIRB does (except EPIRBs commonly activate when sunk in water.) The PLB pilot ran very well for a few years and was expanded to the rest of the U.S. a few years ago.

The feds and the rescuers really appreciate the diminished number of false alerts from PLBs compared to what the ELTs generate. (An ELT will activate from an accidental shock, and it's tough to track down the person who possesses one without mounting a full-scale search.) Since the PLBs are registered with phone contact info, false alerts are quickly resolved.

spider solo said:

For me they all share the same "Achilles heel" they are all battery dependent.

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PLBs are off until activated. They use lithium batteries with a (stated) shelf life of 5 years and over 24 hrs of transmission at -20C.

SPOT batteries (2 AA lithium) are rated: 1 year shelf life, 14 days in tracking mode, and 7 days in 911 mode.

So you have to change the batteries every now and then. (And carry spares if you use the SPOT in tracking mode.)


Humans also have Achilles heels: they require frequent food, water, and sleep, have a limited operating temp range, are high maintenance, and complain a lot.

Doug

My Wife Loves Spot

Though Spot has not been outside enough lately, when it does go out with me, my wife loves receiving those "I'm OK" messages on her Blackberry. For those occasional solo hikes, it's useful for sending that reassurance home. It works fine for me.

The main reason why my girlfriend wants me to keep SPOT is that on most mornings, I have no idea exactly where I'll be hiking (or fishing) until I get there. So she figures that with SPOT, even if it doesnt work thru dense foliage, she would be able to know where I parked and at least have a general idea of where I am, assuming I'm using the "tracking" mode.

sardog1 said:

T Since the PLBs are registered with phone contact info, false alerts are quickly resolved.

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I am not sure I understand what "phone contact" info the PLB has. I thought you just activate it and they are suppose to come save you.
My concern has always been how one knows for certain that the signal has been received and someone is coming.I understood that you did not actually speak to anyone. For $500+ I would like some confirmation that they were alerted and help is on the way, even if it was a flashing light that indicated "received".
Also, can you activate it more than once or do you just get the one shot per incident?

Maddy said:

My concern has always been how one knows for certain that the signal has been received and someone is coming.I understood that you did not actually speak to anyone. For $500+ I would like some confirmation that they were alerted and help is on the way, even if it was a flashing light that indicated "received".

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It is a one-way system. There is no mechanism for getting any information back to you.

Also, can you activate it more than once or do you just get the one shot per incident?

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The normal mode of operation is to simply turn it on and wait for help. It transmits continuously until turned off or the battery runs out.

http://www.acrelectronics.com/product2.aspx?sku=2898

Doug

DougPaul said:

Humans also have Achilles heels: they require frequent food, water, and sleep, have a limited operating temp range, are high maintenance, and complain a lot.

Doug

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??? got me guessing on that one...???

DougPaul said:

It is a one-way system. There is no mechanism for getting any information back to you.


The normal mode of operation is to simply turn it on and wait for help. It transmits continuously until turned off or the battery runs out.

http://www.acrelectronics.com/product2.aspx?sku=2898

Doug

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Thanks! Great web site to. Think I will get one of these with my REI dividend coming up soon

I ran across a rather informative thread on SPOT on backpacking light: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...ums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=13866. Decidedly mixed opinions. (Some of the posters appear to be very knowledgeable.) Worth a read if you are interested.

There is also a review article, but it requires paying a fee.

Doug

Maddy said:

I am not sure I understand what "phone contact" info the PLB has. I thought you just activate it and they are suppose to come save you.
My concern has always been how one knows for certain that the signal has been received and someone is coming.I understood that you did not actually speak to anyone. For $500+ I would like some confirmation that they were alerted and help is on the way, even if it was a flashing light that indicated "received".
Also, can you activate it more than once or do you just get the one shot per incident?

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The PLB is sold with instructions on registering your personal information with the feds (so they can send the black helicopters to get you . . . ) This includes phone and address. When the PLB is activated, the first thing that happens is a phone call from the coordination center to the phone number. If there's no answer, a search will commence. If you loan the PLB to someone for a trip, you can change the contact info for that trip. (This allows rental of PLBs as well.)

You do not speak with anyone -- there is no microphone or speaker. You're sending a coded radio signal. Once you turn it on, it continues transmitting your location until the battery dies or you turn it off. If you're moving while you're lost or trying to get to help, the system will update your location to the rescuers.

There is no confirmation. If you're in extremis, you'll have to trust the system.

You could conceivably turn it off and turn it back on later on the same trip, but I strongly discourage such behavior. Once it's activated, they'll come looking for you until they find you, even if the signal disappears.