Goggle fog

hikingmaineac · Feb 1, 2009

While in some fairly windy, snowy, and cold conditions we found goggles to be extremely helpful. Unfortunately, the first pair my wife wore fogged up very quickly from breath vapor. She put on her own and they did not fog up at all. Nothing changed about how her breath was being directed or how she was wearing them.

I have 2 questions:

My first question is - How do you all prevent goggle fogging?

I've thought of 3 ways, please add your thoughts.

1: Buy "better, more expensive goggles"
2: Try to minimize breath vapors being able to get to the goggles either by cutting your face mask to make bigger breathing holes or positioning the goggles higher.
3: Don't take them off once you put them on, ever!

My second question is - Once the insides of the goggles are iced up, how do you de-ice them?

1: Obviously you could try and scrape them clean like a car window, but what about other methods?

pks4000 · Feb 1, 2009

No fog options

From my days as a ski racer:

My biggest nightmare was being in the starting gate,hearing "racer ready" breathing out deeply ,hearing 3-2- 1 .....GO! and being completely blind coming down the starting gate ramp.

Warm air to cold air no fog
Cold air to warm air will fog
Look for goggles with a wide side frame and large foam vents that keeps the lens away from your face (super hot)
and provides more room for xcross flow of air.

Smith Turbo goggles are costly but have a lttle fan that works.

Buy a cheap fog cloth (5 bucks for 3 at Ski Market and others) and wipe the lens with it every day you climb and once during the climb.

Dont stow the goggles on your forehead when you take them off.

Hang them on your arm up around your shoulder like an apelet (sic)

Dont use frozen cloth or paper it will scratch the plastic lens.
No spit doesnt work thats for diving fce masks

Rols · Feb 1, 2009

Cat Crap purchased at EMS is helpful. It comes in a small, red circular container and is a waxy paste.

timmus · Feb 1, 2009

pks4000 said:
No spit doesnt work thats for diving fce masks

Thanks for telling me this because that's what I was about to try !

Lawn Sale · Feb 1, 2009

I haven't found cat-crap to work for more than 15 minutes, so I switched to Sea-Drops, which works much better. Lots of ice climbers I know use it, but it's not the end-all product.

The moisture in the air (inside the goggles) has to go somewhere, and it adheres to the entire inside of the goggles. Using an anti-fog just prevents the fine water droplets from adhering to create the fog, it does nothing to prevent those droplets from forming in the first place, only ventilation or insulation will do that. Thus once the water droplets form, they immediately freeze to the inside of the goggles. They may not stick, but they still form, and in the winter icing is still an issue.

DougPaul · Feb 1, 2009

Moisture moves from warm skin to cold surfaces.

Double-layer lenses and good ventilation help to prevent fogging/icing.

You can also reduce the fogging/icing by wiping the lenses with a dilute soap or detergent solution. The moisture still condenses, but the soap/detergent causes the drop to smooth out instead of forming a droplet.

Also, don't let exhaled air get under the goggles (can be a problem if you are wearing a face mask under your goggles).

You can deice goggles in the field by heating them inside your clothing, but it may take a while. It also helps to pre-heat your goggles before putting them on.

Doug

adktyler · Feb 1, 2009

One other thing. If you do store the goggles on your forehead when you're not using them, stuff a bandanna (or like material) all the way in. This will keep them from fogging up!

una_dogger · Feb 1, 2009

I just bought new ski googles yesterday -- had been using low end Bolle's that I wear for hiking skiing.

Does your wife have dual layer lenses? My hiking goggles are single layer and they will fog up when I perspire.

Yesterday the rep at the ski shop told me *never* to wipe out the condensation, but to let it airdry because wiping removes the antifog layer installed on the inner lenses. Secondly, when not wearing them, take them off your head.

Last weekend I used Cat Crap at Jay Peak and it worked very well.

I'll continue to use my Bolle's for above treeline hiking, but will keep Cat Crap in my pack to deal with fogging.

hikingmaineac · Feb 1, 2009

una_dogger said:
Does your wife have dual layer lenses? My hiking goggles are single layer and they will fog up when I perspire.

Hers (the one that did not fog) are dual lenses with lots of ventilation. The others that didn't work so well were Rocket21's, so I'll have to check w/him on that one.

Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions.

rocket21 · Feb 1, 2009

hikingmaineac said:
The others that didn't work so well were Rocket21's, so I'll have to check w/him on that one.

Rocket21 used to have better goggles back when he skied more frequently, but the pair he currently has are el-cheapos...and he also forgot to put some cat crap on them early in the hike (and didn't feel like trying to apply it above treeline in the howling wind

).

MichaelJ · Feb 1, 2009

Also, make sure they fit your face well. I get icing starting at the top (inside) of my goggles, which once formed will self-propagate all the way down until stopped by a hot blast from the hand dryers in the ski lodge; however, it's easily prevented just by making sure that I have a good seal from the goggle foam padding along my forehead to prevent cold air from leaking in at that point, leaving only the foam vents for airflow (which let moisture out while keeping warmth in).

bikehikeskifish · Feb 1, 2009

I remain unconvinced that anything actually works. But, I have learned I run many degrees hotter than most others.

Tim

Craig · Feb 1, 2009

bikehikeskifish said:
I remain unconvinced that anything actually works. But, I have learned I run many degrees hotter than most others.

Tim

The Smith Prodigy Turbo Fan works.
I bought a pair last year and have used them a dozen or more times. The fan is 2 speed and they recommend you keep it on the lower speed under normal conditions. They mention the higher speed is for short duration venting of excess moisture.

I need to run them on high speed all the time in order to keep the lens frost/ice free.

I have tried every trick imaginable to eliminate fogging with conventional goggles. I just produce too much heat when I’m moving. Nothing else worked for me.

If you spend a lot of time above treeline in cold weather, it’s imperative that you keep your goggles clear. I now feel very comfortable traveling long distances above treeline, knowing that I won’t end up blind.

When you’re above treeline and its cold, the wind is biting, you can’t take your gloves off for fear of frost bite and you have to keep moving or die; the last thing you need is to have your goggles frost up. You could be in real trouble.

Wanderer1 · Feb 2, 2009

Craig said:
The Smith Prodigy Turbo Fan works.
I bought a pair last year and have used them a dozen or more times. The fan is 2 speed and they recommend you keep it on the lower speed under normal conditions. They mention the higher speed is for short duration venting of excess moisture.

I need to run them on high speed all the time in order to keep the lens frost/ice free.

I have tried every trick imaginable to eliminate fogging with conventional goggles. I just produce too much heat when I’m moving. Nothing else worked for me.

If you spend a lot of time above treeline in cold weather, it’s imperative that you keep your goggles clear. I now feel very comfortable traveling long distances above treeline, knowing that I won’t end up blind.

When you’re above treeline and its cold, the wind is biting, you can’t take your gloves off for fear of frost bite and you have to keep moving or die; the last thing you need is to have your goggles frost up. You could be in real trouble.

Those goggles look interesting. What type of battery do they use and how long does one last? I'm guessing it is a lithium battery so that the cold air does not affect it and it's about the size of a watch battery. Fogged up goggles or glasses are a pain. I've tried a lot of things including Cat Crap which I thought worked like crap. Nothing has worked so far but those do look promising.

Craig · Feb 2, 2009

They take 1 AAA battery. I use NiMH batteries and haven’t had a problem. The battery compartment is located on the head band. If the conditions are such that I need to wear goggles then I will have my jacket hood on, sheltering the battery compartment from the severe cold and wind. The 1 NiMH battery has lasted 6 hours of continuous use. The fan is so small it probably uses next to nothing for power. I don’t know how long a fully charged battery would last.

As you can see these goggles are grossly overpriced, but in those situations you can’t put a price on safety.
OTOH, if you only occasionally venture above treeline and only do so in fair weather for short durations, there may be several more reasonable alternatives.

bikehikeskifish · Feb 2, 2009

Craig said:
As you can see these goggles are grossly overpriced, but in those situations you can’t put a price on safety.
OTOH, if you only occasionally venture above treeline and only do so in fair weather for short durations, there may be several more reasonable alternatives.

Mucho-expensivo. I will give them credit for having replaceable lenses - It would really be a travesty to scratch a $180 pair of goggles.

I'm in the boat where breathable and waterproof are mutually exclusive. In fact breathable by itself is a bit of marketing speak. Anti-fogging goggles are something I can't readily see through my fogged or iced-up goggles.

Regular goggles work fine for skiing, even when stored on my head/hat.

Doug - how do you suggest pre-warming ones goggles in a manner where they aren't moist at the same time? Plastic bag inside one's layers? Oh yeah, I only wear one layer to tree line most days

Now what?

Tim

Remix · Feb 2, 2009

The Smith Prodigy Turbo Fan works.
I bought a pair last year and have used them a dozen or more times. The fan is 2 speed and they recommend you keep it on the lower speed under normal conditions. They mention the higher speed is for short duration venting of excess moisture.

I purchased a pair of these. While they are certainly an improvement, they are not 100%. If you wear a balaclava or any kind of face protection that lets exhaled moisture around the "intake" vents, you still get moisture and some fog.

The snowmobile people have a mask that has some form of heating and plugs into the cigarette lighter...way too much battery power for a hiker.

bikehikeskifish · Feb 2, 2009

DougPaul said:
Also, don't let exhaled air get under the goggles (can be a problem if you are wearing a face mask under your goggles).

Remix said:
If you wear a balaclava or any kind of face protection that lets exhaled moisture around the "intake" vents, you still get moisture and some fog.

What exactly do you do to prevent the situations you guys are talking about here? Insure that the foam from the goggles touches only your face and not the balaclava? Then you get some minimal amount of exposed skin. What happens if the balaclava is flush to the foam, but not underneath it? Does the foam really let air flow through there without letting exhaled moisture flow through?

Does it help if you put the goggles on first and then balaclava or hat over top of them?

What's a good way to check this at home? I guess a really cold day and then a lot of exertion in the back yard? Any other ways?

The two times I wore goggles this winter they fogged in 30 seconds and were iced to useless in 2-3 minutes. I resorted to a tight hood drawn to leave a minimal viewport open, but in neither case was the wind directly in my face so that did work.

Maybe I just have to layer up more and reduce my speed to a crawl, or slower?

Tim

Craig · Feb 2, 2009

Remix said:
...If you wear a balaclava or any kind of face protection that lets exhaled moisture around the "intake" vents, you still get moisture and some fog.

That’s funny, I haven’t experienced that. I wonder if the type/design of balaclava has something to do with it. I wear the OR balaclava with the mesh port.

I don’t think I’ve ever worn goggles without a balaclava. For me, if it’s brutal enough for goggles I’ll be wearing face protection.

Wanderer1 · Feb 2, 2009

Craig said:
They take 1 AAA battery. I use NiMH batteries and haven’t had a problem. The battery compartment is located on the head band. If the conditions are such that I need to wear goggles then I will have my jacket hood on, sheltering the battery compartment from the severe cold and wind. The 1 NiMH battery has lasted 6 hours of continuous use. The fan is so small it probably uses next to nothing for power. I don’t know how long a fully charged battery would last.

As you can see these goggles are grossly overpriced, but in those situations you can’t put a price on safety.
OTOH, if you only occasionally venture above treeline and only do so in fair weather for short durations, there may be several more reasonable alternatives.

Thanks for the reply. I was doing some checking and see Altrec.com has the Knowledge Turbo Fan OTG (over the glasses) model on sale for $104-$120 depending on the lense and $128 for the Prodigy Turbo Fan model. Plus an additional 15% of sale items through tomorrow with the code 15WRAP. That makes them more reasonable with other goggles. I think I'll try them as my goggles are old and the foam is all deteriorated and falling out. The AAA's sound good also as I have the rechargable ones so I won't need special batteries. Thanks again

Goggle fog

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