Clearing blowdown

With the numerous reports of trails (in NH at least) being loaded with blowdowns I might make a suggestion. Since winter peakbagging is still a few weeks away why not take some time to hike a trail that needs some clearing and make that a goal rather than a summit? A couple people can make a big difference to one trail.

Any suggestions of trails that need it the most?

I totally agree with you Carole. I plan on bringing a saw with me on my next hike.

Practice Good Trail Maintance Tech...

Now many of you many very well know and understand the proper way to do trail work, but some with big hearts might appreciate understanding some of the technics involved. I will post some I think of and other can add their 2cents.

- When clearing blow down be sure to watch for "widow makers" (hanging branches high up that might fall on you).
- If you can not pull the hole tree off the trail and you must cut it the best technic is to try to cut the tree so it can be pulled off into the woods or cut it in a fashion that hides the fact that it had to be cut at all.
- When trimming back the small branches you would use loopers to cut be sure to cut the branch as close to the tree as possible. Cutting the branch at the edge of the trail and leaving the rest sticking out of the tree can not only cause a safety issue (sharp pointy dagger), but if the branch stays alive it will just continue to grow into the trail. It also breaks the rule that good trail work is trail work that no one can notice was done.
- When clearing water bars be sure to clear the leaves and other debri far off trail. Don't make a pile of leaves in the path of the drainage. Also be sure not to pile the debri on the burm. It will only be kicked or blown back into the water bar.
- When doing any trail work keep in mind that in winter there are often several feet of snow making the hight of trail higher. During the non-snow months a blow down that can be walked under most likely will be in the path of the trail after several feet of snow raise the high of the trail to the hight of the blow down.
- I'm sure I'm missing things, but I think the most important thing I was taught was BE SAFE and that THE BEST TRAIL WORK IS NON-DETECTABLE.

Great suggestion Carole. I don't hike as much as I would like to anymore, but the next time I get out I'm brining some tools!

Can you just bring a saw onto the trails ? While I think it's a great idea to help, I wouldn't want it to back-fire and get some ranger or trail crew all upset. Locally I don't think anyone would care, but those Whites and DACKS crews I'm not so sure about.

Though this sounds like a great idea, I am STILL uncertain if clearing blowdown is "allowed" by the powers that be ???? Can we do this or will the rangers/ others in the know be upset?

sli74

EDIT: Chip beat me to it

sli74 said:

Though this sounds like a great idea, I am STILL uncertain if clearing blowdown is "allowed" by the powers that be ???? Can we do this or will the rangers/ others in the know be upset?

Click to expand...

I was going to ask the same thing. If nothing else, we can stop as we hike and at least try to clear out some of the smaller trees.

When doing Hurricane a few weeks ago, sometimes all it took was shaking the snow off the trees, and they would stand up again. Others could be pushed or dragged off the trail with a little effort.

I helped Laurie do 'sanctioned' trail maintenance a few weeks ago in the Catskills. We used a hand saw and loppers. We managed to get a 20" log off the trail with a little perseverance. Fortunately it was pretty rotten.

Every little bit helps!

Check with the powers that be

Taking out a tree or two on a trail is one thing, but if you are doing a lot of work, please check with the whoever is in charge.

A story: Five or so years ago (after Floyd?) there had been a lot of blowdown on the Dix trail. We (46ers) are the official maintainers, and we had arranged with the state, that we would have a large blowdown clearing crew on day X. The state said, "Good and thank you."

Day X arrives, and we are there with fifteen able bodied people, all ready for work. We head down the trail, and find almost no blowdown. We later found out, that some club, decided that they would be doing a service by clearing trail. They didn't tell the state, or us, and we had a bunch of idle people that day. Had we known, we could have worked somewhere else.

Be especially careful, if you are on a path that is NOT an official trail.

Pete, does your crew have to carry liability insurance, or are there waivers, or what happens if an injured trail worker decides to sue ? I could imagine some volunteer warrior dropping a tree on his head and then deciding the state, or whoever, was to blame.

The clearing of blow downs from my perspective at least would be a minimalist approach. Just clear enough of the blow down to allow passage. Cleaning water bars, brushing, and removal of large trees is best left up to the adopter and the professional crews. As a trail adopter (Webster Cliff Trail), I wouldn’t do anything other than take a few branches off to allow easy passage up the trail. However, you can help by taking note of the blow downs and their location and forward that information to the AMC, RMC, or whichever club maintains that trail.

For a club’s perspective on hikers removing blow downs, go to the RMC’s bulletin board. I posted a question asking about their policy regarding removing blow downs. Their answer was very helpful.

Chip said:

Pete, does your crew have to carry liability insurance, or are there waivers, or have the lawyers not found the trails yet ? I could imagine some volunteer warrior dropping a tree on his head and then deciding the state, or whoever, was to blame.

Click to expand...

We are covered by Workman's Comp, and all of it's implications.

Trail Maintenace

Can you just bring a saw onto the trails ? While I think it's a great idea to help, I wouldn't want it to back-fire and get some ranger or trail crew all upset. Locally I don't think anyone would care, but those Whites and DACKS crews I'm not so sure about.[/QUOTE]

Good point.... In the Catskills, trail maintainers are trained and organized by the NYNJTC. One has to be member of either the NYNJTC or a member club (such as the 3500 Club) to adopt a trail. I think when I started, I wasn't allowed to do any work until AFTER I had attended a training session, and read a manual. And yes, there are things they tell you, such as how to cut a downed tree (its all about the cantilever), how/where to blaze, and how to hide your work. We are also supposed to notify the Ranger before making a maintenance visit.

SO with all that in mind, I don't think random people showing up with saws and loppers would go over well with the DEC. I have no idea who is in charge in NH or what piolicies apply.

Now if you want to walk my trail (that would be Indian Head down to Jimmy Dolan...) and pick up all the loose branches .....thanks, Dave!..... have at it!

We were out in the Daks two weekends ago (Sawteeth, Blake, Colvin) and it was also a MESS. Based on my Catskill eperience, I thought rather than return with my saw, I should reach out to the 46'rs or another group authorized to run a work day in the 'Daks and see if I can pitch in that way .... ideas, Pete?

Margaret

comon sense says - bring the saw - clear some trees that need to be cleared if this tickles your fancy --

I think its higly unlikely anyone is going roast ya for doing some good.

Personally - I would just rather hop over the things than clear them - but admit to being a bit selfish in this area - but I least I am being honest. I also thank the people that do it tho. I have bad memories of chopping and cords and cords of my wood in my youth for the family woodstove - all set with that now.

Thought I would share the thoughts of a friend who is a trail adopter in the NH White Mountains:

Clearing blow downs is not so much an act of trying to be helpful.. but it is in act of safety especially during winter months. We have been clearing all blowdowns that look as though they will impede or further slow winter travel.
We also clear the ones that look like they could be a danger in the event of a glissade or slip and fall.

Either way you look at it.. either the trail crew will clear it sometime down the road (who knows when) or you can just carry a saw and get it out of the way. Folks just need to remember that in Wilderness areas.. Trail Crew's only remove blow-downs if they are causing hikers to further erode the landscape by going around them. In that case they should be left alone.

We also only cut Blowdowns 4" in diameter or smaller.

Clearing blowdown/cleaning outhouses

This thread reminds me of a good deed that my friends and I tried to do over 30 years ago. We had hiked into the Johns Brook Valley early in June and were camped at the Howard Leanto. There was no one else in the woods that week (could have been the blackflies!) except us and the Ranger. We thought we would do him a favor by cleaning the outhouse. So we went to the ranger station, told him about the dirty outhouse, and asked to borrow a broom, etc., to clean it. He told us, in no uncertain terms, that the outhouse was just fine and did not need to be cleaned. Period.

I don't recall if I ever knew that ranger's name but I've always wondered if it was the famous Pete Fish.

Pat T

Chip said:

Can you just bring a saw onto the trails ?

Click to expand...

I would think in winter a saw can be considered part of emergency gear. If you carry fire starter what are you going to burn? Don’t you just love it when you see a huge tree across a fire pit that is burned in the center with both ends sticking out!

sli74 said:

Though this sounds like a great idea, I am STILL uncertain if clearing blowdown is "allowed" by the powers that be ???? Can we do this or will the rangers/ others in the know be upset?

Click to expand...

I think if someone had to be evacuated out that anyone 'in the know' would appreciate clear passage.

Chip said:

have the lawyers not found the trails yet ? I could imagine some volunteer warrior dropping a tree on his head and then deciding the state, or whoever, was to blame.

Click to expand...

Someone can also decide to sue if they get a stick up their butt, or their eye, or...

giggy said:

Personally - I would just rather hop over the things than clear them

Click to expand...

Some are much more than a hop over. Cutting pointed branches sticking up if you can go over the top or cutting branches underneath if it allows passage that way keeps people from forming paths around it. These often last til spring and do a lot of damage to the trails.

------------
Some blowdown just needs to be moved, no cutting involved. Some only takes a minute or two to cut. Some might take a cut on both sides of the trail so the center can be moved off the trail. Sometimes just branches can be cut to allow passage.

If you are uncomfortable doing it, don’t. But if you don’t mind a little bit of work, come prepared.

Just wondering....

If people want to help, which is of course commendable, why not reach out to the appropriate trail maintenance group and join a coordinated effort?

That way, trail maintainers won't make wasted trips, people will be following common practice, people have liability coverage, rangers will be happy....

Margaret

giggy said:

I think its higly unlikely anyone is going roast ya for doing some good.

Click to expand...

Things aren’t black and white. It starts white, and goes to grey, then black.

Someone pulling a branch out of the trail
Someone with a small saw cutting some blowdown
Someone with a huge saw cutting some blowdown
Two people doing clearing everything on the trail.
A group of 20 people, equipped with all kinds of implements of destruction.

Pushing things to the limit, and there may be problems.

Miss Margaret said:

I should reach out to the 46'rs or another group authorized to run a work day in the 'Daks and see if I can pitch in that way .... ideas, Pete?

Click to expand...

At least in the Adirondacks, most groups don’t do anything during the winter. Our schedule for next year is going to be up on our web site one of these days. You could come with me and clean up Street&Nye, but after 4 trips there this summer, I won’t be going back until the spring. Let them winter hikers earn their climb!

blowdowns

i personally don't care if they're there or not. this thread is I.M.O. a clear example of how screwed up this part of the world is. should we do a good deed or not?,will i get sued?, what if someone says something?, leave it to the proper "authorities". "well it seems pretty straight forward,but it isn't". it's like when someone applies for a job, sweeping floors or doing trail work,the "authorities" ask, "do you have experience"? we'll have to train you the "proper"way,oh and that costs money so could you please make a check out to us for "x" amount of dollars? c'mon, who are we kiddin'??? what a joke!!!
p.s. i don't mean this as an attack on anyone here, it's just another viewpoint!
p.p.s. fire away!!! red square , green square ,i don't care!

post'r boy said:

. this thread is I.M.O. a clear example of how screwed up this part of the world is. should we do a good deed or not?,.......
p.s. i don't mean this as an attack on anyone here, it's just another viewpoint!

Click to expand...

No assumption of an attack against me, but let me put another twist on it.

Should we do a good deed or not? Consider this. You especially should understand.

I used to have a favorite small mountain. Nothing special, and there was no trail. Bushwhack all the way. One day, someone thought they would do a good deed, but cutting a trail up the mountain. There is now an ugly eroding trail up that little mountain, because someone thought they were doing a good deed.

Like I say, nothing is black and white.

post'r boy - as usual - well said and your comment ooozes with the best tool out there - common sense -

pete - I appreciate where your going to tho - 1 person and the all of a sudden you got the big dig on lowes path.