A Poll about Poles

In this thread , timmus wrote:

timmus said:

I did a big hike last week (24,5 miles, 5 4K's, with a 18 Lbs pack), and right after leaving trailhead, I realized that I left my poles at home ! And you know what ? I didn't care, because I don't need them anymore. Don't ask me why, I don't know. Even more strange is the fact that I run downhill on the trails, I jump and bang on each step down. Maybe -maybe- that is where the answer is.

Click to expand...

I myself hiked without poles as I started the NH 48. After some of the more punishing downhills (Dicey Mills, for example) my knees were pretty sore. I bought into the pole theory and things were better for the short hikes which followed, and the one longer loop (Falling Waters, LH, Lincoln, Lafayette, OBP). Then, the petello-femoral pain and diagnosis.

So, timmus' note got me thinking... Which is the cure and which is the disease? Did my sudden use of poles make my knees weaker / lazier? If I didn't use them, would I be better off?

In this thread and poll, I am specifically interested in

people who have switched to poles
people who have abandoned poles
people who have never used them

as it pertains to knee pain.

I like my poles, but I use them. Sounds dopey, but I've seen people with poles just carrying/dragging them. I've had knee pain, but it's been from lateral motion, like when you get off balance, not linear motion, so I've found poles help there. On the way up I can employ my upper body and on the flats and down hill I use them like ski poles, to set my next step/jump. I may try a long staff as I had some fun coming down Jackson after the Flags event with our long flag pole - I'd step or jump, grip and slide down it on the decent.
But whatever, I never used them when I was younger.

I never used poles until about 5 years ago. I started having pain in my left knee on steep descents like liberty springs, or coming off carter dome, towards the notch, so I decided to see if poles would help, and I don't have knee pain any more! .

I wish I had $20 for every time I passed someone going downhill on uneven terain and was told, wow that's a good idea, wish I had a pair. Sometimes I get frisky and run downhill and carry them, but I always take them. The main reason that I started using them is that most of my hikes/walks are exercise based and making my upper body and arms do some of the work helps me keep those 6 pack abs.

I still forget them sometimes, but haven't noticed any difference in knee pain. My guess is that pole use dosen't create weakness, any more than high top boots create ankle weakness.

Always use them in the Summer and when I don't have to go lightweight. Only sometimes in winter I don't really bother with them because I'm just going simpler and speedier.

My best memories of having poles was running down the Tuckerman Ravine trail skipping on the rocks and using my poles to vault over rocks and those big ditches that cross the trail - super fun!

Make sure you use the strap correctly, though, I see tons of people who just loop their wrist around it.

I've used them for a long time and think they help in lowing phyiscal impact on the joints. There is a big difference in using two poles - so I'm assuming your pole about poles assumes the use of two (although not all do this).

I have neglected to take poles on a few outings in the past year or two. Surprisingly I didn't miss them as much as I thought I might. On the other hand, I was purposefully more careful coming down.

They can also help in with speed. Hiking with a full pack is easier because they help you balance yourself. I think I go faster on crappy wet trails like "some" in the ADK's. You can hop around much easier. That said, using poles on the downhill is probably slower.

Note to readers of youth... I used to run off mountiains. It WILL catch up to you... eventually!!

When I first started hiking, I would look for any decent stick at the trailhead or along the trail that I could use as a staff for that one hike. I remember using a found stick to help push myself up the Spellman Trail on Monadnock and then, somewhere during the descent while ambling along, it suddenly crumbled in half. Yikes. Lucky thing I wasn't putting any weight on it then. A few years later I bought a nice walnut one from Early Winters. I stopped using it for several years when I wasn't hiking much anyway. It's been in retirement lo these many years except that one time in 2002 when I got it out to accompany me on my 46th Adirondack High Peak (because I'd used it on my first High Peak 19 years earlier).

I received a beautiful wooden stick from a friend 11 years ago for my birthday and I used it three days later and I've used it on every hike since, except for strolls around home on roads.

On my first hike of Allen, September 29, 2001, I began using a metal pole in my left hand, and I've been using its descendants ever since. They don't last long.

When I used just the one, I would sometimes have to switch it to my left hand because my right arm would get sore (my first climb of Colden comes to mind here), but when I use a pole in each hand, neither arm gets sore. Strange, eh?

I started out always using a pair of poles, both for balance and for steep uphills, taking some of the load off my legs by using my upper body to push on the pole.

Nowadays it's primarily about balance, and so for easier trips I'll just bring a single staff instead of the pair. For certain rock-stepping situations, especially water crossings, I wouldn't want to be without it.

I've always had poles since i've been hiking but I don't Always use poles, I will sometimes use poles based on the terrain and the weight I'm carring, whether it's a bushwack or a trailed hike. Basically, the less I'm carrying, the flatter the terrain or the less bushwack the hike is, the less times I will carry poles. I'll sometimes even just carry one. If I'm backpacking, I'll typically bring them though but I have always owned a pair of hiking poles which I think is the point of your pole.

As far as Poles, I like Poles as much I as I like hikers of any nationality.

Jay

I almost always hike with two poles. Being a relatively fast hiker who is also a klutz can be a lethal combination without having poles for balance. They also give me a sense of rhythm when setting my hiking pace. The only time I don't use them are on rock scrambles where you use your hands a lot, or I might use one only for a leisurely stroll in the wild.

They also work well if you need to whack your hiking partner if he/she is giving you a hard time. I don't think they would fend off a bear or moose, though

Marty

I hate using poles... well they're OK when skiing, or snowshoing in fluffy snow, but for hiking, I hate them. Several years ago, when doing the Northville Placid trail, I accidentally took a pole with me, so I had to use it the whole hundred whatever miles. It was a one piece thing, so I couldn't just fold it ant put it in my pack.

About halfway throgh the trip, I found myself depending on it for balance. Stepping on a slippery log, and loosing my balance, I'd INSTINCTIVELY plant the pole to maintain my balance, instead of bending knees, shifting weight, etc. I did not like depending on the pole.

However..... This year, I messed up my knees (sort of accidents), and I find that I have to use poles. I can't wait until the knees are better so I can ditch the poles.

I was advised to use poles right after I started hiking regularly since I have chronic knee pains. I depend on them a lot for balance and support, but when the legs get tired on uphills, it is nice to be able to switch to upper body and take some pressure off the knees. Also, going downhill, the poles take a lot of pressure off the knees.

"Sometimes use them"

I just purchased a new pair. Well actually my first pair. (Thanks MEB, flick-loc's are great!)
I seldom use poles for 3 season hiking. If I do it's usually a single.
In the winter I use them... borrowed from Katahdin Goddess who has an LLBean E-Store collection in various stages of usefullness.

I like the extra stability poles give me when it's slippery underfoot.
I like the freedom no poles give me when traction isn't an issue.

So I vote... "sometimes".

Onestep

I purposely started this poll so I can inquire (using the results) at PT at 11:30 today. I'll add what I learn. I am really interested in whether the poles are a crutch, used in lieu of properly strengthening the muscles which hold the knee (cap) in place, which is apparently the cause of some (most?) knee pain...

So, if you've stopped using poles, I would really like to here why and what the result was (must be positive else you'd have gone back, right?)

Thanks,
Tim

I do not feel that they are a crutch - there is an unreal amount of stress placed on the legs and feet when hiking - I believe I read that each downhill step puts 18 pounds of stress on the knees. I don't care if you are a decathlete or home run hitting steroid injecter - that is a lot of stress over a 10 plus mile hike, and even more over a lifetime of hiking. My legs (when I am in shape) are plenty strong, and I have never had any real knee issues - I think the poles are a big help and I feel naked without them.

I too started using poles about 5 years ago. I use two (one in each hand... ) on most hikes, except if I have my dog with me.
I feel that they help distribute the stress of hauling myself and gear on inclines, I actually pull with my arms when I'm going uphill and I plant them like ski poles on the downhills.
I especially like them when trail running with a pack on, again, planting like ski poles and absorbing some shock when stepping down.

I feel qualified to respond to this thread.

Let me start off by saying I'm a 2-pole man but didn't start using them until the venerable age of 46 or 47. I'm also a chiropractor and I get pat-fem pain. Oh, and I hike in the NE too.

It wasn't until the age of 46 or 47 that I began hiking in the Adirondacks and I found the "trails" to be particulalry punishing, especially the downclimbs so I got a pair of poles. I have made extensive use of them in all sorts of conditions, have tried using only one, and sometimes leave them at home just to have free hands.

Poles are very worthwhile to own and use. On the downhills they reduce stress on the knees (and hips etc.) by passing it up to the shoulders and arms. This IMO is the number one benefit of poles. On the uphills they can be used to transfer a portion of the load from the leg to the arm muscles. I don't use them for balance really (except for crossings) and often wonder if they dull my sense of balance but the OP is curious about knee pain.

On the steeper, rocky downhills I lengthen them considerably and will plant them both, tighten my ab muscles, lean out hard and swing both legs down together. This spares the knees considerable stress and sometimes I have stiff abs and shoulder muscles the day after a hike. On more moderate grades I will plant them alternatively using the right pole to take load from the left knee and occasionally do a double pole plant.

Someone mentioned straps and I agree 100%. For best biomechanical advantage my straps are usually real tight around my wrists. I take the load on the end of my forearms just before the wrist joint. This way I don't use the forearm and hand muscles hardly at all but rely on the bigger muscles above the elbow.

Pole length is very important. On the trails I rarely see poles that are properly adjusted. Most of the time they are too long which decreases the efficacy of the muscles involved and necessitates (needless) shoulder girdle elevation with each step in order for the pole to clear the ground for the next plant. I adjust the length of my poles often. I used to have screw home fasteners but switched to flick-locks this summer hoping they will work better in winter than the scew homes.

The lighter the poles used the better. There is a trade-off between strength and weight I suppose.

I started using them around 8 or so years ago. I first found out about them while on my first winter hiking on some of the easier trails in NH (Mt. Major, Locke Hill). My wife and I were using side of the trail debris for hiking staffs to balance over icy sections. When we got to the summit of Mt. Major there was a hiker and his dog there making hot chocolate. We hiked down with him and he was using poles. I asked him about them and he was saying how great they were.

A few years later after ACL replacement surgery on one of my knees, I found that the poles allowed me to get back on the trail much sooner than if I hadn't been using them. They have also saved me a number of times from a broken ankle by allowing me to quickly transfer all my weight to them.

They are also indispensable if you have other knee problems (like me). Also, I could see getting injured and not being able to hike out without some sort of crutch/aid.

Love 'em, use 'em all the time.

Kevin

sometimes use them

... but "sometimes use them" was not an option so "never use them" comes closer than any of the other choices.

I'll occasionally grab a stick in the woods when I feel it'll be useful. Somehow my garage has a collection of favorite sticks, the most interesting being one that was carved at both ends by a beaver.

I've borrowed my son's Lekis and experimented using one or two and found it more helpful to my balance than my knees and at this time I have concluded that it's not worth the bother to carry them.

In snow I always hike/snowshoe with one, usually a xc ski pole.

P.S. I do have some lingering knee, let's just say "awareness", from surgical repair of a torn meniscus in August. Hiking doesn't bother it at all though I can't comfortably run on it.

Poles reduce stress on joints? Muscles can as well. Before I hurt my knees (and again in the future), I try to land on the toes with the knee bent slightly. The foot absorbs some of the shock, and the upper leg absorbs the rest. It requires strong muscles, but it does take a tremendous amount of shock away from the joints. Very much my preferred method, but as I mentioned.

I'm really hoping that my current knee injury will not leave me dependent on poles (the way the last injury left me dependent on the drugs)