Do helicopters ever find lost hikers in NH?

Apparently a large part of the hiker search expense is for helicopters, but I can't remember that they ever actually found anybody in NH. Air search couldn't even find a missing Learjet. Can anybody provide examples?

It may be that F&G could save a lot of money (and avoid risking crews in bad weather, what would they charge the kid if the chopper crashed?) by restricting helicopter use to positioning search crews and retrieving victims once found. It would require toughlove with families of missing persons, however.

Brenda & Russell Cox on the north side of Lafayette quickly comes to mind.

The crews were in the process of being deposited along Franconia Ridge, when on one trip Russell was spotted waving to the helicopter.

Yes, they do sometimes:

February 2008: Two guys on the Dry River Trail

January 2004: Recovery of remains after tracks spotted from helicopter (This one is known to several folks here.)

It's worth noting that helicopters are like all the other assets used in a search. Apart from the occasional dramatic find, each asset contributes most significantly by covering areas and eliminating them. This allows the incident commander to direct assets efficiently to areas that need coverage (or recoverage) because of gaps noticed or clues found.

Helicopter searching in forested areas is tough. Even fancy technology has its limitations. I've conducted a demo with a FLIR-equipped helicopter in winter. The subject was so well insulated in his parka that I had to tell him to come out of some swamp grass before he could be distinguished by the FLIR operator. And I've stood directly under a helicopter hovering overhead at night, shined a bright light at the aircraft, but the crew could not see me.

They're very efficient at chasing guys through treeless Los Angeles neighborhoods, but not as effective in forested terrain on subjects who might be immobile.

sardog1 said:

Yes, they do sometimes:

February 2008: Two guys on the Dry River Trail

January 2004: Recovery of remains after tracks spotted from helicopter (This one is known to several folks here.)

It's worth noting that helicopters are like all the other assets used in a search. Apart from the occasional dramatic find, each asset contributes most significantly by covering areas and eliminating them. This allows the incident commander to direct assets efficiently to areas that need coverage (or recoverage) because of gaps noticed or clues found.

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A helicopter has never found anyone on any of the searchs I have been on, for that matter 99.9 of the searches I have been on I have not been the one to find someone either. That said helicopters besides eliminating large search areas are a "feel Good" item while on the search friends/family/loved ones can see and hear a helicopter working (as opposed to not seeing the ground searchers hidden in the woods). Also more than one lost victim has gained strength and the will to live by simply hearing the helicopters. Just knowing someone is out searching for you can give you the strength and courage to stay alive. Consider a helicopter as a giant cheerleader ra ra ing you to stay alive, a giant beacon of hope.

In a large part of the public's mind They associate a helicopter with every search. In their minds if a helicopter is not deployed we(Search Resources) are not doing all we can to find their loved one(s). In a recent case a lost hikers parents where pretty upset with the State of N.H. believing they did not have enough assets involved in the search. They wanted a helicopter on scene....they got a helicopter....and a bill....

Wish I were with you on this one, RoySwkr (what expense!!), but wasn't a helicopter instrumental in the rescue of the young guy on the east side of Lafayette a while back? He had a fair amount of good gear, as I recall, but had given up on his boots and was brought out without them. I don't remember his name or the date (others will help here), but he made the fateful decision to go east off the Franconia Ridge. Hoping it rings a bell.

I was also around (enjoying another beautiful winter day on Mount Willey) when I heard the choppers up the Dry River last year.

I hate that this Scott Mason is getting whacked for 25 large for a bad call and some bad luck, but if my neighbor were out there freezing to death, I'd want those choppers brought in.

And thanks again to all who help their neighbors in trouble!

--Mike

sardog1 said:

They're very efficient at chasing guys through treeless Los Angeles neighborhoods, but not as effective in forested terrain on subjects who might be immobile.

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Maybe we just need more Agent Orange in there! --M.

I suspect that helicopters are standard rescue practice in most of the US, but because of the thick forest cover in the Whites, it makes it difficult here. I can see how using it above treeline or along large rivers like the East Branch, but other then that I think it can be a waste of money when leaves are on the trees. I know that they are thinking of it more as doing whatever we can.

-Mattl

So far it sounds like 2 cases where a helicopter might have found someone alive out of how many cases? Otherwise they are mostly feel-good.

Much of the time a helicopter is employed in New England for actual searching, not evacuating, there isn't going to be a charge because it's a military helicopter. Folks appear sometimes to forget that F&G does not order up a military helicopter. It's made available by approval from the military authorities in response to a request from F&G. F&G doesn't even own a helicopter. The NH State Police do have one, and it is used occasionally on searches.

The military views it as training time that is necessary, not as an uncompensated SAR expense, and the deployment decision is not subject to parental/media pressure. Anyone requesting or providing a helicopter is familiar with the fact that riding in them is hazardous, made even more so by mountains, bad weather, and darkness. The deployment decision is not made lightly.

The case that has attracted all the attention here ran up a huge bill because an out-of-state private contractor had to be hired when another helicopter was not available.

RoySwkr said:

But based on your experiences, just because a helicopter looked there doesn't allow you to rule an area out.

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This implicitly misstates what I said. Dog teams miss things, ground pounders miss things, and helicopter crews miss things. The incident commander is responsible for knowing the limitations of each type of SAR asset, reviewing their field reports, and using the assets efficiently.

A more pertinent question, I think, is why can't lost hikers ever find helicopters?

Puma concolor said:

A more pertinent question, I think, is why can't lost hikers ever find helicopters?

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Because they don't hike with, nor know how to use, signal mirrors.

Or lasers.

MichaelJ said:

Because they don't hike with, nor know how to use, signal mirrors.

Or lasers.

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True, but if they are in the Presidentials or Franconia area where it seems most of these searches generally take place, they presumably know there's plenty of above-treeline terrain. If I ever get lost - truly lost - and I know people are out searching for me, my entire strategy is to get low at night for maximum warmth and high during the day for maximum visibility. Expend as little energy as possible and let the professionals find my dumb a**.

I'm certainly not going to fault an aerial search for not being able to spot a 5'8 tall hiker in a thicket of 40-foot tall pine trees.

MichaelJ said:

Because they don't hike with, nor know how to use, signal mirrors.

Or lasers.

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... or a smoky fire. I can think of at least one fairly recent SAR case in the Whites when a fire might have saved someone's life, both in the heat it can provide and in helping searchers, airborne or on the ground, to locate the victim.

As for Roy's question, I don't think the numbers say it all. How many ground searches have been successful? What does each represent in proportion to the total number of searches, successful or not?

Above all, what does the search represent as a best effort? It is no surprise that, in this day of disregard and disrepect, in so many circles, for human life, that we change the paradigm from humanitarian to bean counting.

Stan said:

... or a smoky fire. I can think of at least one fairly recent SAR case in the Whites when a fire might have saved someone's life, both in the heat it can provide and in helping searchers, airborne or on the ground, to locate the victim.

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Yup. I was involved in a wintertime search at Crater Lake National Park that ended successfully when the subjects' fire was noticed by a helicopter crew. The smoke was intended to draw attention. (Now, if the husband had been that adept at routefinding, he and his wife would have had a three day trip, instead of a seven day trip . . . )

sardog1 said:

Yup. ... (Now, if the husband had been that adept at routefinding, he and his wife would have had a three day trip, instead of a seven day trip . . . )

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And if the wife had been adept at routefinding? ...

Let me tell ya, she was one unhappy camper when she climbed out of the helicopter and into a crowd of TV news crews from Portland and Seattle . . .

RoySwkr said:

But based on your experiences, just because a helicopter looked there doesn't allow you to rule an area out.

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This is all related to search theory and POD (probability of detection). There are reams of data on how this is done and I don't have nearly the time needed to do this subject justice but even if helicopters have a 30% POD they can cover very large swathes of area. Areas can have multiple searches done and large areas checked very rapidly. Depending on terrain, equipment and on other conditions they may be as effective as an open grid search done by searchers and may be far more effective than ground searchers because they can do the search multiple times, very rapidly, even if their single POD winds up being relatively low.

Imagine a very steep, tree covered slope. Very difficult to do searching with ground resources. It would use up many, many search teams. Would take a very long time because of the difficulty. Exhaust lots of teams and they would probably still have a poor POD when they finish. A helicopter could do the same search of the same area and even though its POD is also low it can go over the same area, repeatedly, with no extra effort and increase its POD by many searches over the same area more than once.

I would suggest that anyone who knows they are the subject of a search, assume that an aircraft may be in use. You already should not be moving because you know you are lost. Warmth and shelter are your two priorities if you are not injured and still on your short list of things to do even if you are injured. Because of that, a fire should be available 24/7. Running during the day with material nearby to make smoke and running at night so if FLIR or even starlight is in use it will make you much more visible to aircraft and even ground searchers.

Those line laser units for signaling and rescue that are available laser rescue light and flash mirrors and the ability to use them correctly can also be more effective than smudge fires during the day and even more effective at night.

Anything (reasonable) that makes your footprint bigger, is better for you and the rescuers.

Regards,
Keith

Is there any practical value to the flash mode most headlamps come with or is that just a marketing gimmick?

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

Is there any practical value to the flash mode most headlamps come with or is that just a marketing gimmick?

Tim

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I have wondered this myself too. You would think that, if going through the effort of making a flash feature like that perhaps flashing SOS would have been better? Unless of course a constant strobing is some kind of universal signal I am not aware of?

Brian

bikehikeskifish said:

Is there any practical value to the flash mode most headlamps come with or is that just a marketing gimmick?

Tim

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There is a practical value. You just need to hike with a disco ball.