Tent Stakes For Frozen Ground

[DayTrip]

I bought a trekking pole shelter this year for shoulder/Summer season use. Can't wait to use it but it is critical to stake the 4 corners out for a proper pitch. I keep seeing photos on Instagram of people out in their various trekking pole shelters in the snow and I'm wondering what the hell they're doing to set it up? (And by snow I'm not talking deep snow. I'm taking dusting to an inch so presumably the ground is at least partially frozen) Is there someone off camera with a dead blow hammer and a piece of rebar or is there some type of stake, technique or trick for doing this? I've Googled "tent stakes for frozen ground" and it seems to just bring up the usual popular stakes, which based at least on my experience are not going to work. Also found a few old blog articles that seemed promising but the links were to pages not found.

So is there a type of stake for this? Can you make a "pilot hole" with something and then use a conventional stake in the hole you started? Are there DeWalt Ultralight Hammer Drills? Any input on this would be appreciated.

 

[jfb]

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/product/bugaboo-pitons/

 

[DayTrip]

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/product/bugaboo-pitons/

Have you used these for tent stakes? Is the wide, flat blade easier to hammer into the ground versus the "nail" type stakes like the Vargo Titanium nail pegs or the MSR Carbon Core pegs? And being a climber's item do you presumably hammer in with an ice tool, which I likely would not be carrying? Thanks for the alternative idea.

 

[jfb]

Have you used these for tent stakes? Is the wide, flat blade easier to hammer into the ground versus the "nail" type stakes like the Vargo Titanium nail pegs or the MSR Carbon Core pegs? And being a climber's item do you presumably hammer in with an ice tool, which I likely would not be carrying? Thanks for the alternative idea.

A couple of decades ago, I used to use a couple of pitons to pitch my tent and found that they worked really well in frozen ground. They are fairly expensive and heavy, but they work and sometimes that's more important. I used them mostly for car camping and would have a piton hammer in my car, but any type of hammer would work. I never tried the modern pegs you mentioned, which would also need a hammer to pound them into the ground.

 

[DayTrip]

A couple of decades ago, I used to use a couple of pitons to pitch my tent and found that they worked really well in frozen ground. They are fairly expensive and heavy, but they work and sometimes that's more important. I used them mostly for car camping and would have a piton hammer in my car, but any type of hammer would work. I never tried the modern pegs you mentioned, which would also need a hammer to pound them into the ground.

Yah it is seeming like the stake is not the problem, it's what to get it in the ground with. I just watched a YouTube video (was car camping stuff) but one of the things he used was concrete screws which screw in. It would certainly be a lot lighter to carry a ratchet than a hammer or if possible use a second stake to twist the nail in and out. I wonder if any ice climbing technique would be of use. Thought that was an interesting thought.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I always just use the typical Y stakes and hammer them in with my hatchet or a rock. Don't pound it in all the way because you'll likely have to give it a strike to remove it from the ground. Natural anchors (roots, shrubs) are always preferred but rarely available at every stake out point.

 

[DayTrip]

I always just use the typical Y stakes and hammer them in with my hatchet or a rock. Don't pound it in all the way because you'll likely have to give it a strike to remove it from the ground. Natural anchors (roots, shrubs) are always preferred but rarely available at every stake out point.

They don't break? I've broken a few of those hitting rocks, striking slightly off angle, etc. I'd be concerned about relying on that type of stake.

 

[JoshandBaron]

They don't break? I've broken a few of those hitting rocks, striking slightly off angle, etc. I'd be concerned about relying on that type of stake.

I've been using the same set of stakes since 2015. When i pitched my mid on Rogers Ledge there wasn't enough snow to hold a stake. I made piles of snow on the rock, buried some deadmen sticks in them, and gave them an hour or so to sinter before loading them. Tent held all night.

 

[jfb]

(And by snow I'm not talking deep snow. I'm taking dusting to an inch so presumably the ground is at least partially frozen)

Around here, the ground doesn't freeze solid until mid-December. It may be that some of the pictures you are seeing are taken before the ground is frozen and if that's the case, then it can be pretty easy to push the pegs into the ground.

 

[DayTrip]

Around here, the ground doesn't freeze solid until mid-December. It may be that some of the pictures you are seeing are taken before the ground is frozen and if that's the case, then it can be pretty easy to push the pegs into the ground.

The photos are from all over the country and I'm just guessing on a time frame and ground condition.

 

[dave.m]

I bought a trekking pole shelter this year for shoulder/Summer season use. Can't wait to use it but it is critical to stake the 4 corners out for a proper pitch. I keep seeing photos on Instagram of people out in their various trekking pole shelters in the snow and I'm wondering what the hell they're doing to set it up? (And by snow I'm not talking deep snow. I'm taking dusting to an inch so presumably the ground is at least partially frozen) Is there someone off camera with a dead blow hammer and a piece of rebar or is there some type of stake, technique or trick for doing this? I've Googled "tent stakes for frozen ground" and it seems to just bring up the usual popular stakes, which based at least on my experience are not going to work. Also found a few old blog articles that seemed promising but the links were to pages not found.

So is there a type of stake for this? Can you make a "pilot hole" with something and then use a conventional stake in the hole you started? Are there DeWalt Ultralight Hammer Drills? Any input on this would be appreciated.

The answer won't be ultralight.

To drive a stake into frozen earth or heavily compacted soil like you get at campgrounds requires a stake that is stout enough to be driven with force without bending. It also must be tough enough to sustain damage from rocks.

The high end solution back in the day were Black Diamond's T-stakes, which were 8" of hardened aluminum that could be driven into anything shy of solid rock. I still have 8 of them I first bought for my MegaMid and they've lasted decades. These are not light and I've not seen anything like them on the market recently. If anybody has ideas on something similar, I'm all ears.

The low-end solution are the 10" galvanized steel tent pegs you can get at most camping stores. Colgahn's certainly sell them under their branding but any Walmart has them too. They work well and it's what we use for all of our car camping and any tarp rigging at the house for parties.

This said, finding a few inches of snow on top of frozen ground isn't something I encounter often in the woods. For winter camping, deeper snow is the norm that I've encountered and learning to rig a dead man anchor out of fallen branches is the best solution I've found. It's not hard... Pre-attach 6' lengths of line at the tie out points. Bury a 3' stick with the line looped around it. Once the snow hardens, tie the line to the tie out point using a truckers hitch (fancy slip knot). To decamp, pull the slip knot free and then pull the line out of the snow. Easy-peasy.

For shoulder season times, I use light aluminum 'Y' style stakes or my t-stakes for the width. I find mud and loose soil under a layer of snow to be the norm. Placing a heavy rock on top of the stake helps but the core issue is loose, not frozen soil, at least that's what I encounter. I would really love to find good replacements for my remaining t-stakes. For shoulder season, that's the ticket.

 

[DayTrip]

This said, finding a few inches of snow on top of frozen ground isn't something I encounter often in the woods.

I know. I have a free standing single wall tent I'd use in those conditions and your dead man anchor tip would be a great idea in that scenario. I'm talking more late Spring/early Fall around my house in CT where the snow is out or minimal but the ground hasn't fully thawed out yet and is still solid at least at night when the temperature drops. Up until about 10 days ago in my area there was zero snow and pretty mellow temps so I was going to go ahead and do some overnighters if the weather stayed mild. I was experimenting with a tarp in my yard and had the luxury of using a dead blow hammer for the stakes.

After doing a little research I've come across numerous inexpensive tent stake hammers that are 12-14 oz, which would be a weight penalty I can live with assuming that is enough mass to drive a nail type stake in. So I think I'm going to try those Vargo Titanium Nail Pegs with an inexpensive hammer and see how that goes. I think it's gonna be like a $40 investment for 6 pegs and a hammer through Amazon and I can return everything if it doesn't work. Now there's just the matter of the non-stop snow storms we've been getting since I had the idea. Not unlike when I used to golf and on that warm early March afternoon I'd swing my driver out in the yard and immediately spawn 2 weeks of cold, snowy weather. I'm good that way....

 

[dave.m]

I know. I have a free standing single wall tent I'd use in those conditions and your dead man anchor tip would be a great idea in that scenario. I'm talking more late Spring/early Fall around my house in CT where the snow is out or minimal but the ground hasn't fully thawed out yet and is still solid at least at night when the temperature drops. Up until about 10 days ago in my area there was zero snow and pretty mellow temps so I was going to go ahead and do some overnighters if the weather stayed mild. I was experimenting with a tarp in my yard and had the luxury of using a dead blow hammer for the stakes.

After doing a little research I've come across numerous inexpensive tent stake hammers that are 12-14 oz, which would be a weight penalty I can live with assuming that is enough mass to drive a nail type stake in. So I think I'm going to try those Vargo Titanium Nail Pegs with an inexpensive hammer and see how that goes. I think it's gonna be like a $40 investment for 6 pegs and a hammer through Amazon and I can return everything if it doesn't work. Now there's just the matter of the non-stop snow storms we've been getting since I had the idea. Not unlike when I used to golf and on that warm early March afternoon I'd swing my driver out in the yard and immediately spawn 2 weeks of cold, snowy weather. I'm good that way....

After a bit of Googling (or Duck Duck ing), I think the MSR Ground Hogs are the closest think I can find to my beloved BD T-stakes. Focusing more on the shoulder season aspect and less on the frozen ground aspect, I see more wet soil in shoulder seasons, hence the wider profile stakes hold better for me than the spikes. I should have read your post more carefully, as I jumped to frozen and didn't think about the mud.

Also, I almost always find a handy rock to smash my finge^H^H^H^H^Htent stakes with.

 

[DayTrip]

After a bit of Googling (or Duck Duck ing), I think the MSR Ground Hogs are the closest think I can find to my beloved BD T-stakes. Focusing more on the shoulder season aspect and less on the frozen ground aspect, I see more wet soil in shoulder seasons, hence the wider profile stakes hold better for me than the spikes. I should have read your post more carefully, as I jumped to frozen and didn't think about the mud.

Also, I almost always find a handy rock to smash my finge^H^H^H^H^Htent stakes with.

I have the kind of luck where I'd camp in the one area in all of New England that wouldn't have a single rock within 5 miles of where I'm camping to use. Or there would be piles of perfect rocks all frozen to the ground and unusable. You did inadvertently make a good point though that I should probably have both styles of stake in the event the ground did thaw on a trip. That would also be my luck to be perfectly prepared for the wrong conditions.

 

[sierra]

I have the kind of luck where I'd camp in the one area in all of New England that wouldn't have a single rock within 5 miles of where I'm camping to use. Or there would be piles of perfect rocks all frozen to the ground and unusable. You did inadvertently make a good point though that I should probably have both styles of stake in the event the ground did thaw on a trip. That would also be my luck to be perfectly prepared for the wrong conditions.

Anyone ever tell you, that you overthink things? Stakes or Deadman, that's how you pitch in the winter.

 

[DayTrip]

Anyone ever tell you, that you overthink things? Stakes or Deadman, that's how you pitch in the winter.

Yes, you do every time I post a question. What else are you gonna do on a TUE night waiting for Spring? I do love to overanalyze. That's how great ideas come to be (which in my case is things people have been doing for decades that I've never thought of because I've never done it before so the perspective helps)

And if you read my entire post and question. a deadman will not work in the situation I am interested in unless it quite literally is a dead man and I can lash a tie out to his belt buckle. I was asking the question with specific conditions in mind, not general Winter advice.

 

[sierra]

Yes, you do every time I post a question. What else are you gonna do on a TUE night waiting for Spring? I do love to overanalyze. That's how great ideas come to be (which in my case is things people have been doing for decades that I've never thought of because I've never done it before so the perspective helps)

And if you read my entire post and question. a deadman will not work in the situation I am interested in unless it quite literally is a dead man and I can lash a tie out to his belt buckle. I was asking the question with specific conditions in mind, not general Winter advice.

A few years ago, I sold all my old ice climbing screws at IME in North Conway. They were quite outdated and they came with a ratchet to screw them in. Might have worked well for what your looking for. I didn't suggest it, because they are long gone and modern screws go about 75 bucks each, a bit pricey for tent stakes.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I think for the conditions you describe, frozen solid ground with no snow, a concrete screw is your best bet. It's my backup if I ever fail with the groundhogs. A tiny phillips ratchet is certainly lighter than a hammer or hatchet and it doesn't require much torque to drive into frozen soil.

 

[DayTrip]

I think for the conditions you describe, frozen solid ground with no snow, a concrete screw is your best bet. It's my backup if I ever fail with the groundhogs. A tiny phillips ratchet is certainly lighter than a hammer or hatchet and it doesn't require much torque to drive into frozen soil.

I mentioned that in one of my earlier comments here that I had seen someone in a blog mention that and it does seem like a clever idea. As sierra points out though at $75 a pop it'd make more sense to pay someone as a porter to come out and pitch it for me. I went ahead and ordered those Vargo pegs to try out in my yard. I figure those could at least make a pilot hole for a more "regular" stake so they don't break. It's only a scenario I'd encounter for a few weeks to a month maybe so I don't want to invest to much into it.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I mentioned that in one of my earlier comments here that I had seen someone in a blog mention that and it does seem like a clever idea. As sierra points out though at $75 a pop it'd make more sense to pay someone as a porter to come out and pitch it for me. I went ahead and ordered those Vargo pegs to try out in my yard. I figure those could at least make a pilot hole for a more "regular" stake so they don't break. It's only a scenario I'd encounter for a few weeks to a month maybe so I don't want to invest to much into it.

When i say concrete screws i mean those screws that are just like coated deck screws.