770 Northeast US 3000 footers

[Bolivia]

PDF list

Jay H-

I'd like a copy of your list when you have finished working on it.

Actually, since many of us would like a copy, perhaps you could post it for all to read publicly.

 

[spencer]

Well, since digital distribution of this list was brought up, I might as well mention that I've created an extensive database of several NE lists, including the 770. I've built a few small query-driven applications to manage the lists and relate them to each other.

I have found it extremely useful for two things:

1) keeping track of my own lists
2) learning better database design, some application building, and more specifically MS Access.

I don't have any plans to distribute it. I am apprehensive about mass distributing such lists. I realize there are two main schools of thought regarding the elitism/selfishness/protection of said lists. I ere on the side of passing them sparingly.

Maybe a few words from some of the creators and early caretakers of the list would comment on their thoughts about its dissemination...

spencer

 

[Jay H]

Folks, I have nothing to do with the creation of the list. The only thing I got into was converting it from a MS Word document to a Adobe Acrobat document (PDF) for FunkyFreddy who didn't have word on it. I did so and sent it to a bunch of folks who requested it privately. Whoever resurrected this thread reminded me to finish "improving" it. Improving it means I took the NE770 list and was able to convert it to PDF using PDFMaker properly including the grid lines on the table. Those that read this who I sent the PDF file originally will remember that file was unlined and made it visually a little less easy to read. I have converted it to PDF with the table grids, making it easier to read.

As far as Spencer's concerns, yeah it's a thought that passed my mind but I rather not get into politics of lists and the such, those that asked for it got it. I don't recall ever hearing of a cease or decist decree from anybody, if that is not the case, then feel free to PM/email me offline and I'll stop.

Re: your database. Good idea Spencer! A nice and easy relational database could be put together using some very easy database tool. I'm familiar with FileMakerPro that is kind of popular with the Macintosh crowd but is out for IBM PC compatibles. It's an easy tool to do database work in.

Jay

 

[vegematic]

Amount of trailless peaks: Adirondack peaks- 140, Catskill- 55, Massachusetts- 0, Maine- 97, New Hampshire- 83, Pennsylvania- 2, Vermont-46. Total- 423 trailless peaks (55% of the 770)

Interesting post, thanks for the information! I'm interested in your criteria for trailed vs. trailless peaks. For "trailed" peaks are you including those with no official trail but that have a herd path or logging road that goes to or near the top? I ask because I went through the lists for NH and ME (the states I'll be working on first) and using AMC maps, a couple of regional trail guides, & the NH and ME Gazetteers got considerably different numbers.

For Maine I got 96 trailless peaks if I counted those with a trail that goes within, say .5 mile of the summit as a trailed peak. If I included the peaks with trails near them I got many more than 96 trailless peaks. For NH I got much less than 83 unless I did count those peaks that were only near a trail as trailless.

I know that the Gazetteers are not good backcountry navigational maps, but it was easier than running out and buying some 50 USGS quads all at once.
-vegematic

 

[Papa Bear]

I think there is another rationale for not giving out the list. The group of 4 mentiouned by E. Schlimmer had no list - they figured it out the hard way by studying the maps. And I would hazard a guess that studying those maps to find those peaks was part of what one would have to do anyway to climb those peaks.

For the same reason you don't usually give exact compass bearings to someone who wants to do a bushwhack you've done - let them learn the skills to do it themselves - they'll need those skills to do the whack.

And not having to buy all those topos is no longer an excuse. Use topozone or readily available software! Haven't bought a real paper copy of a US topo in many years.

When I have hit one of these peaks, I usuall first study the map and see where the streams flow, where are the gully's, where are the woods roads etc., and then mauybe ask one of the "gang of 4" what he thinks of doing peak X fromn the east vs. the west etc. It's all part of the fun.

If I ever decide to do the 770 or the 451 (if I live that long), I'll make my own list. Who knows, I may even find a peak they missed!

 

[Ned Kipperson]

It definitely isn't about the patch.

 

[Dennis C.]

Maps and Peak Lists

To address the peak lists: The New England list (451) already existed in the early 1980s and there were (5) completers at that time. Gene Daniell, I believe, was the major contributor to the original. As the 7.5 min. quad map came out (replacing many error laden 15 min. quads), major poring over resumed. John McHugh and Gene did those updates. Then RoySwkr and I checked over all the changes (22 peaks were taken off, 22 were added). As for the NY list, it also existed; by this time Gene Daniell had researched one and John Swanson had his version. Notes were compared. I'm sure RoySwkr and The Peak Master (Art. J.) contributed to that also. I managed to spot a qualifying peak just south of (the former fire tower) Hamilton Mtn, in the southern ADKS. Turns out that south approach is now the way to go in toward Hamilton. The old trail has faded away and the former entrance is now on private land (unfriendly owner).

 

[Peakbagr]

Eric,

The peak access, blowdown, route difficulty, lack of trails, logistics, permissions, and any number of other reasons will always keep this list to the "funatics". You could post the list on the cover of Time magazine and it would probably get 5 people who would stay with it long enough to make any sort of dent in any but the easiest of the peak.
Even here, with the self-limiting population who reads the board, most of us who would start out trying this would run out of gasoline or lifespan before we finished.

 

[John H Swanson]

It saddens me to see people cutting and flagging routes up non-trailed peaks because these peaks are on a list. There are many examples. Whether they think they are helping them elves or others, this is degrading of the wilderness and the wilderness experience. Sure, one can say, it's possible to bushwhack a trailed summit to get more of a wilderness experience. But it's not the same when you arrive on the top to see the litter left by people that have used the popular route.

 

[Ned Kipperson]

I have hiked a good number of the peaks on the list, mostly in NY. There are many so-called trailless peaks that have ATV trails nearly or all the way to the top. The only way I found out was by happening upon them and then following them. It had nothing to do with taking an easy way out, or getting "411" from some other hiker. A lot of these trails were on private land, or they came from some backyard where nobody would see where they came in.
The "46'rs" have their "history" with climbing the 46 original peaks, whether or not they met any of the criteria. There goal was to popularize more distant areas of the High Peaks, and then, conservation of the trampled peaks. I don't think we have any problem today with popularizing more distant areas.
I think with the 770 it should be kept quiet. If you want to do them, great. But the challenge lies in finding the peaks, getting maps, directions to the area, PERMISSION to hike, etc. Some of the list is out there, the Catskill list is in the back of the ADK guidebook (at least the old one with the bearded fella on the front), the New England list is out there too, I believe.(?)
I'll be the first to admit that I mostly lost interest in ever reaching even the Catskill 3000's. Mostly because of heinous briars in the western peaks and disinterest in pursuing lists. Ned is a big time quitter.
I agree with Swanson and E. Schlimmer about the litter that is involved with a lot of peakbagging. A mountain in Northern NH with no trail and barely any hiking pressure will still have a bit of litter on top in the form of a baby food jar with paper jammed in it. It's worse to bushwack up a TRAILLESS peak and find litter on it than one that you KNOW will have a clearing and possibly a little brown sign on it.