Abandoned Hikers, a new trend?

[NewHampshire]

I was one of the four in Magics Origional group in question. Out of respect for him I will refrain from actually commenting on that situation either positive or negative since I am still "new" to all of this (the group hiking scene.) But I would like to say he did leave us in good hands. Bill's (Pucknuts) and Tom's (WildPeaks) combined years of woods tramping experience would qualify them for the AARP . But I wonder, even knowing this, does it still make a difference?

I would also like to say THANK YOU to Sleeping Bear for your concern. Its nice to know that even strangers still show concern for those they dont even know. It pleases me we all share some form of responsibility and/or concern for the safety of others on the trails.

Brian

 

[sleeping bear]

I would also like to say THANK YOU to Sleeping Bear for your concern. Its nice to know that even strangers still show concern for those they dont even know. It pleases me we all share some form of responsibility and/or concern for the safety of others on the trails.

Brian

You're welcome!

I'm glad there are no hard feelings for this event having been dragged out into the open. I hope MTN Magic will not take offense, while he may not have made the best decision, it certainly wasn't really all that bad, especially given the weather. Did I mention how awesome the weather was on Saturday?

It's a learning expereince, now everyone knows how everyone else feels about leaving your group... and that some of us might come help ya out if it looks like ya need it. I would hope others would do the same for me.

 

[NewHampshire]

The weather, the views, the effort....it affirmed my passion for this sport. One day like this a year will give me reason enough to hike 364 less than perfect days .

And on the other note, we live, we learn. Hopefuly we all take something from this .

Brian

 

[Pete_Hickey]

In my case, I'll never hike with someone who depends on me. I only hike with someone who would be capable of handling things on their own if I dump them. Hey, I raised four kids, I don't wanna have to worry someone depending on me any more.

Oh yeah... I'll also hike with someone who is strong and dumb... IE they'll break trail for me when I tell them that I can'T see because my glasses fogged up.

Oh yeah... I'll also hike with someone who will buy me a beer after the hike.

By the same token, I don't care if someone I'm hiking with takes off on their own.

Bottom line is that I'm not a group hiker. I will not advertize, "I'm going on a hike to xxxxx, anyone want to come along." To me that would imply that I am some kind of organizer. A few weeks ago, I was hiking with two others. For the last almost two hours, we were each walking alone at our own pace.. in the dark... We met at the trailhead. None of us thought much of it.

The point is that some people are like this. I guess the problem is when you have some people like this hiking with others who depend on a group.

 

[timmus]

Oh yeah... I'll also hike with someone who is strong and dumb... IE they'll break trail for me when I tell them that I can'T see because my glasses fogged up.

Sorry to tell you this, Pete, but I think people are breaking trails for you just because you are old and always SOOOOooo tired.

 

[dug]

JP1, JP2, JR & ??

What the heck does that mean?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

JP1, JP2, JR & ??

What the heck does that mean?

The names of my kids. The fourth one is the lepracaun in the forest.

 

[Skyclimber]

Everyone should be accounted for at all times. If you start as a group, you end as a group, no matter the speed differences among each other.

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

One Saturday afternoon nearly a year ago I was one of about a dozen in a group that climbed Mt. Garfield. On the descent one of my hiking partners just ahead of me stated he was going to "fall back a bit", meaning he had to pee.

At that time I was the last in line as we descended the Garfield Trail. I had hiked with this guy many times before and we had never had any problems that I'm aware of, other than the fact that I wasn't very pleased with his attitude concerning his dog, who would quite regularly attack other dogs on the trail. This guy even once remarked laughingly, after his dog had attacked a leashed Golden, bloodying it's nose, "Well, that dog shouldn't have been on her trail."

Anyway's, as I passed him, I jokingly said, "Don't fall back too far, you might get lost." "Drop Dead!" was the reply that came back from Mtn Magic. The glare in his eyes made it clear he wasn't joking. When the rest of the group stopped to rest at the upper brook crossing, I continued on.

I abandoned the group there and continued to my car. I drove back to the campsite where many of us were camped, loaded up my gear and went home. That was the only time I ever abandoned my hiking group and I felt very bad about it. Since then I've done my best to keep the groups I've hiked with together as much as possible...whether I was the trip leader or not. (FWIW: Many of the hikers in that group were more experienced than myself)

Mtn Magic,
I've decided not to take your advice reference...dropping dead, because, as you always said....


"Life is Good!"
Have a nice day!


New Hampshire,
My regular hiking partners will both be out of state this coming weekend, so if you'd like an experienced hiking partner for this weekend that won't leave you behind, drop me a PM in the next few days.
Bob

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Anyway's, as I passed him, I jokingly said, "Don't fall back too far, you might get lost." "Drop Dead!" was the reply that came back from Mtn Magic. The glare in his eyes made it clear he wasn't joking. When the rest of the group stopped to rest at the upper brook crossing, I continued on.

I abandoned the group there and continued to my car. I drove back to the campsite where many of us were camped, loaded up my gear and went home. That was the only time I ever abandoned my hiking group and I felt very bad about it. Since then I've done my best to keep the groups I've hiked with together as much as possible...whether I was the trip leader or not.

FWIW NH_Mtn_Hiker - it strikes me that the Universe uses us in strange ways. On the one hand you felt "flipped off" by the remark, and took an action that you deeply regretted later. Now, you take extra steps to make sure everyone on your hikes gets up and down safely.

So, maybe it's time to let go of your anger. Maybe that incident had to happen in order to for you to develop your emphatic talents. Am not suggesting that you thank Mtn Magic for the comment, but it sure sounds like you've taken a regrettable incident and turned it into something good.

My apologies if this seems too direct. Perhaps I should have sent this to you in a PM.

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

Many years ago when I first got started peakbagging

I suspect, many years ago a group of hikers probably knew each other a little better than the average group today does....meaning they were probably friends before they started hiking or even relatives unlike these days where many hikers meet via the net and often know little about each other.

I agree unless other arrangements are made that the whole group agrees with, the group should stay together if it was implied ahead of time that they would be hiking as a group. Another important point is, find out who makes the best treats ahead of time so you can hike close to them.

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

...it strikes me that the Universe uses us in strange ways...

I was thinking something very similar when I got home this afternoon and saw this thread.

My apologies if this seems too direct. Perhaps I should have sent this to you in a PM.

No apology needed. The anger has long passed...As long as I can get to the Whites every weekend I'll be a happy hiker.

 

[Lawn Sale]

It all depends on the situation. While on one hand I wouldn't want to be held back by someone else, I also wouldn't want others to head off and leave me.

It's a problem when hiking, even with those you know as everyone can have an "off" day hiking.

I hiked with someone on here once, and I won't aire my dirty laundry here nor criticize them. But it really sucks when you come down off a mountain you have never been on before, snowing and in the dark, to not be able to locate your car.

I enjoy hiking with a group of people, it's usually lots of fun. But, I'm also typically a solo hiker, and have no problem being self-sufficient. Have I missed peaks to stay with a group or friend, absolutely, but the conditions warranted it at the time. I've also gone ahead to grab them, but once again, the situation was different.

 

[Periwinkle]

I suspect, many years ago a group of hikers probably knew each other a little better than the average group today does....

Not necessarily -- there's the classic tale of the 1882 "Scott-Ricker" Twins/Bonds epic -- diverse strangers heading out, then splittering, leaving others without supplies, etc. Not a new issue, apparently.

I agree unless other arrangements are made that the whole group agrees with, the group should stay together if it was implied ahead of time that they would be hiking as a group.

I know this is the "right" thing to do, but I'm not a purist in that sense. I wouldn't leave without telling the group, but I reserve the right at all times to bail (and am prepared to solo 99% of the time.) Can't say that I'd ever forge on ahead, since that's never happened.

Overall I agree with the "communication is key" concept. I wouldn't object to spilting a group if the parties were informed.

As to the specifics of the current group in question -- I'll leave that alone since I wasn't there.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I suspect, many years ago a group of hikers probably knew each other a little better than the average group today does....meaning they were probably friends before they started hiking or even relatives unlike these days where many hikers meet via the net and often know little about each other.

I'd like to take this further. One may think they know someone on the net. They may be friends on the net. Howeer virtual friends... part of a virtual cmmunity..... a 'close' group.

We really only see one asect of a person on the net. We don'T see the physical side of them. we don't see how they act under pressure. We only see the side of them that they want to show.

Not only that, but we probably don't 'care' about them as much as we would a 'physical' friend. They're closer to a character in a book, than a real person.

"Why should I really care? This person isn't real."

So why should this 'new trend' be surprising?

Periwinkle makes the case that it has happened in the past.. Sure.. but it is becoming the norm these days.

Of course, net friends can become real friends in time.

 

[MEB]

Even the most well thought out plans can still go astray. Last summer I had planned a long strenuous hike with several people that I had done a lot of hiking with. During the planning stages we had talked about the route and possible bail out options along the way and had set up a car spot in the event someone decided to head down. We had also talked about that due to the size of the group that some would be a little faster or slower but that we would regroup along the way to make sure everyone was ok. Everyone seemed ok with this prior to the hike. It was either the morning of or the night before that I had mentioned to my sister that on long, strenuous trips like this you never know how everyone is going to be able to handle it, including myself.

So, to make a long story short about ½ way through I had mentioned that one person had the option of bailing at a certain point because they had expressed they were tired. The person who I said this to told me that we would have to send someone else down if they decided to bail. I was a bit taken back because we had discussed this all before hand and the person thinking of going down was very comfortable about going by himself. Later, the person who was tired told me he only kept going because he did not want others to feel pressured to end the hike on account of him. Now if the person who was going down was ill or injured that would have been a different story. The person who was tired decided to continue along and go down at the next bail out and this time another person in the group was going to go down as well. The same person then told me and the rest of the group that a third person should be going down too. This caused a great amount of stress for everyone, as this was not how things had been planned out and discussed.

I guess what I’m trying so say is that you never know what can happened during a hike. As in the case what I thought was ok with everyone was not even though there was plenty of communitcation amoung us all.

-MEB

 

[bruno]

'swhy i never hike in groups. problem(s) solved all round.

 

[giggy]

well said all,

I will add by saying it "depends" on who/what/where/when/how, etc..

I think "everyone staying in a group" at all times is "old school". you need to have a clear communication plan prior to trip and then adapt to the situation. I think the problem arises when you have a decent amount of skilled people who hike differently and have different values. Then you have too many leaders and chaos can errupt. If someone solo hikes alot and wants to bail or turn back alone - I see no problem with that. If it is a someone new to hiking, then maybe its a problem.

VFTT are group hikes, there are no leaders, and for the most part, their are no guides, or "professionals". If you want that then go on an AMC hike, or pay a guide.

I do think we should share some personal responsibilty for ourselves. Be self sufficient - esp if you never hiked with folks prior. Ask questions before going and plan, plan, plan - ask "well what if I am a bit slower", etc, etc, etc.

 

[sapblatt]

These issues all point to why I prefer to hike with people I know - yes, early on I had posted some hikes to the world, but as I have met more people I have many people that I like to hike with - I have lost the desire to post hikes to the public.

If you have read my reports you would also know there have been situations where things have not gone perfectly and the people I have been hiking with have all been great about any changes that have occured during the day. I guess I have been lucky (or I am good at picking hiking partners) that I have not had people that were impossible to deal with in bad situations.

The speed factor is always a problem, as I feel that I am slow (but I am really very average) - I know a lot of my hiking friends are a lot faster than I am, but I have found that the people I like to hike with share similar values about hiking and the outdoors and never mind what the pace is - we all just like to be outdoors with like minded people. With all of these points I would also agree that these are group hikes and we should all be self sufficient. I do not expect my partners to have things that I would need in an emergency - although I know Rols would have everything!

 

[McRat]

Part of the advantage of larger groups is the ability to break off into smaller ones based on speed and capabilities.

During a miserable rainy slushfest up E.Osceola, it was great to reality check at the summit. About half went on to bag the main peak, and four of us decided to save Osceola for another day. Both groups enjoyed safe group travel at comfortable speeds. We had flexibility, and 'safety in numbers'.

'Abandoned hikers' should be in the eye of the abandoned. Many of these group hikes are more social than expeditionary in nature. A few like minded people meet up, share some miles, and go their separate ways. Sometimes it is back at the parking lot, sometimes on the trail. Once they say, "Goodbye" they are hiking solo.

That said, it would be highly irresponsible to leave someone alone who needs other hikers for thier experience, guidance, or even just a level of emotional comfort.