Abandoned Trails in the Whites

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David Metsky said:
No trailwork means no trailwork, I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. ;)
I believe that reality is a bit more complex ...

I was at the Wilderness trailhead Ranger Station talking to a ranger about the Old Osseo Trail, and he said that it was being maintained up to Whaleback by a group from the condo. No signs went up pointing that it is illegal and subject to a $5,000 fine.

Ditto the Firewarden's Trail on Hale. At one time the maintainers went overboard, posting signs. The signs were taken away, but again no attempt was made to stop the "illegal" maintainence.

Some trails are abandoned for genuinely valid reasons, like the various slide trails (Downe's Brook; Beast of the East). Others are abandoned for no very valid reason (usually lack of resources to maintain the trail), and here I find the situation much murkier.
 
David Metsky said:
I'm not sure why you put #6 where you did

I know. The fact that you don't get it is basically my point.

Not "you" specifically, you're fine (on balance), but that mode of thinking.
 
what I see in Will's original 10-post is that #3, #6, and #9 are not trail work per se, but are a progression of information disclosure, which I believe is protected by the First Amendment (at least for the moment)......
 
Dr. Dasypodidae said:
#3, #6, and #9 are not trail work per se, but are a progression of information disclosure

#2 as well. And all, as you seem to understand, deliberately not differentiated.

Because the overall list gradient is degree of impact; the list items themselves were formulated goal- rather than process-oriented.
 
USFS Volunteer trailwork

The USFS does utilize volunteer trail workers. At the time of the Ice Storm cleanup I volunteered a few days of trailwork directly through the USFS. They also DO have a Volunteer Adopt-A-Trail program although the program is not very well publicized and administration seems to vary by Ranger District.
 
Hoping to return this thread to its "kinder, gentler" initial direction:

Roy, was there a certain period of time when the majority of these trails were abandoned? I'm guessing the main reason for "reclaiming" trails was erosion.

The Watermans' Forest and Crag provides interesting reading about the history of trail development in the northeast. They suggest that major factors in trail abandonments were the triple barreled impacts of the 1938 hurricane, World War II, and the war-related closing of the trailhead hotels. They cite this especially in the abandonment of the trail network in the Rosebrook Range, near Crawford Notch. Other of the "Grand Hotels" maintained trail networks, some of which fell into disuse with the decline of the hotels, while others continue.

The Hale FW trail and the Bemis Trail were both built to service fire lookouts, and when the lookouts were closed, the trails fell into disuse. Other mountains also fit this pattern, I'm sure.

Conflicts with trailhead landowners may lead to the closing of a trail, such as possibly the Tuttle Brook Trail. The condo development at the lower Osseo Trail probably belongs in this catagory, too.

Logging has had dramatic impact on many trails, especially in the pemi. When an area is logged, trail markers are removed, and a maze of logging roads and trails will confuse any intrepid hiker. Extensive logging also makes an area less desireable to hikers. Logging still takes place in the WMNF, and I suspect the WMNF may rarely relocate a trail away from this activity. I suspect this is why the western end of the Three Ponds Trail was moved. I believe the WMNF does a pretty good job of avoiding hiker-logger land use conflicts.

I think it's fun to consider and study the rich human history of our "wilderness."
 
"Kinder gentler" is ok, but "edgy" is ok too. A related problem that I have observed the past few years is the decline in maintenance of non-abandoned trails, to the point where many trails in the Whites are becoming essentially bushwhacks. For example, the Willey Range Trail was so badly overgrown with vegetation until this past spring that many folks were tying flagging all over the place to mark the route.

Not only are most USFS trails growing over with vegetation at an increasing rate, but many AMC trails too. The Dartmouth Outing Club, Randolph Mountain Club, and Wonalancet Outdoor Club seem to have a better handle on their trail maintenance. Perhaps the AMC needs to pay closer attention to what their volunteer trail adopters are doing or not doing, and perhaps the USFS (all districts) could use some of our parking demo fees to organize more volunteer trail adopters?
 
Perhaps the AMC would get more trail volunteers if they didn't charge the volunteers to work....

Are they kidding?

It's the same mentality that allows them to charge $72 to join a hike up Mt. Washington.

Spencer

p.s. Yes, I realize that in the first case the $ covers food and lodging. Is it too much to ask for them to put up a volunteer?
 
The AMC's special trail maintenance programs (use Spencer's link above), which cost big $, are somewhat different than the AMC's volunteer trail adopter program, which I tried to join a few years ago. I was told that there were no trails available, but I could have my name put on a long waiting list. Meanwhile, either the AMC did/does not know how little was/is being done by some volunteers, and/or some volunteers are too embarrassed to resign from their adopted trails allowing someone else on the waiting list to have a crack at it. I think that the special trail maintenance programs that cost $ involve working with an AMC supervisor and are generally major reconstruction projects and the like.
 
Doc,

I didn't mean to confuse people. What I was griping about is certainly different than volunteer trail Adopters. I don't know the percentage of work done by Adopters vs. professional cres vs. the boneheads I alluded to, although it would be interesting.

I too have wanted to adopt a trail, but nothing even remotely in my neck of the woods has opened up so I do a small bit here and there when I can.

I'm also still in the potentially itinerant stage of my life, so long-term commitments are tough... expect a shameless plea for a job from fellow VFTTers in the coming months. Networking has no boundaries...

spencer
 
WODC has a handfull of trails that are in need of adopters or co-adopters. I don't have the complete list in front of me but I know it includes Bennett St, Wiggen, Square Ledge and Tilton Spring. Sorry, but we're not looking for an adopter for the old cut-off between Dicey's and Walden.

No money required and you don't even have to be a member (but at $15/year, who wouldn't want to be?). All we ask is that you go on one work trip with us so we can get aquainted, you read our nifty trail tender's manual (supplied free of charge), and that you stay in contact with us. Specific duties are negotiable, but they generally involve brushing and blowdown removal. Adopters who clean waterbars are a rare but highly valued breed.

You can PM me here or email me at [email protected] Check out Peter Smart's extraordinary WODC website at www.wodc.org

Oh yeah, and if you really want a challenge, Sleeper Trail has been in need of an adopter for the last 10 years.
 
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stopher said:
Oh yeah, and if you really want a challenge, Sleeper Trail has been in need of an adopter for the last 10 years.
Hmm, last I knew this was sporadically maintained by the SubSig Outing Club.

Jack Waldron said:
The USFS does utilize volunteer trail workers. ... They also DO have a Volunteer Adopt-A-Trail program although the program is not very well publicized and administration seems to vary by Ranger District.
Jack is correct here. There are many organizations that have Adopt-a-Trail and if the AMC won't take you there are plenty of others that need help worse.

Originally posted by will
7. Brushing out with light cutting tools

8. Adding an occasional marker at a key point: cairn, tape, blaze
I would say that 1-6 and 9 are legally OK, the First Amendment allows you to disseminate information and the USFS allows cutting dead trees and non-commercial mineral prospecting. Cutting live trees and littering (tape markings) are illegal. Note that I am not an attorney or Federal magistrate :)


Originally posted by Davehiker

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Roy, was there a certain period of time when the majority of these trails were abandoned? I'm guessing the main reason for "reclaiming" trails was erosion.
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The Watermans' Forest and Crag provides interesting reading about the history of trail development in the northeast.
As I recall, they also note that one particular Forest Supervisor did not believe in trails and would have closed them all if he could. In 1941 the Forest Service maintained about 1000 miles of trails with several hundred by other groups and that can get expensive.

I have a 1941 WMNF map which shows the areas closed due to blowdown and that doesn't seem to be a real issue, as even in many closed areas you were allowed to hike the trails. (If there is anybody in Central NH with a large-format flatbed scanner we could post this map.)

In the last 30 years, most of the trail closures seem to have been due to landowner issues where somebody who owns the road frontage cuts off access to the public land behind. Sometimes (Osseo) an alternate is built and sometimes (Stevens Brook) not. Except for the 2 infamous slide trails, I can't think of major erosion problems. There have been several closed due to excess mud.
 
RoySwkr said:

Hmm, last I knew this (Sleeper Trail) was sporadically maintained by the SubSig Outing Club.
In 1993, Wonalancet Out Door Club, with the blessings of Sub Sig and USFS, resumed mainenance responsibilities of Sleeper Trail after a 40 year hiatus. In the past eleven years, WODC has put well over 1000 hours of volunteer work into putting the trail back onto its original route (there were many unintentional relo's due to unremoved blowdowns), addressing numerous erosion and drainage problems, and the usual clearing and waterbar cleaning. Also in 1993, WODC petitioned the USFS to have the name of the trail changed to "Kate Sleeper Trail", in honor of our founder and matriarch -- President of WODC when the club created the trail a century ago.

The AMC guide book committee did an excellent job of picking up on this change, acknowledging Kate Sleeper, and providing a description that would help eliminate any confusion, particularly in noting that one section that was for a little while affixed to Downes Brook Trail was once again part of Sleeper Trail. I thank Gene Daniell for this as well as his many other services.

And BTW, next Weekend (Sept. 10 - 12) a small group of us will be on Sleeper, doing our annual maintenance thing. Feel free to drop in and say "Hi!" (Bring loppers and a hazel hoe.)
 
Hey, i know your all really deep in discussion here about hiking trails, but i thought that if anyone else here skis you might get a kick out of this website...its really hot stuff. Its great if you have a spirit of adventure lol.

New England Lost Ski Areas Project
 
I walked the Kate Sleeper trail on Saturday from Downes brook to the Tripyramids and then on Sunday up to Whiteface. I thought the trail was great. Of course my point of reference is the muddy ADKS!
 
Re: Stopher

BrentD22 said:
How many water bars are on sleeper trail?
Nowhere near as many as on Dicey's or BBL, both of which I know you're familiar. I'm guessing maybe 30?

But in respect to Mr. Garby, let's get back to "abandoned" trails. Who can name three routes (all are trails in various states of semi-abandonment) to Lost Pass? Winner gets aKeeping Track bandana delivered to gathering 7.
 
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Re: Re: Stopher

stopher said:
Nowhere near as many as on Dicey's or BBL, both of which I know you're familiar. I'm guessing maybe 30?

But in respect to Mr. Garby, let's get back to "abandoned" trails. Who can name three routes (all are trails in various states of semi-abandonment) to Lost Pass? Winner gets aKeeping Track bandana delivered to gathering 7.

"Who can name three routes (all are trails in various states of semi-abandonment) to Lost Pass?"

I'll give it a try:
1) Woodbury Trail
2) Snow's Brook trail
3) Flat Mountain Pond Trail (original route)
 
NH_Mtn_Hiker:

Wow, that was fast! You know, I thought you blew it on #3, but you got me on a technicality. The '17 AMC guide describes the Flat Mtn Pond Trail as branching at the upper pond, therefore going to both the lower pond AND Lost Pass. You win! Are ya gonna be at the gathering?
 
I knew that 3rd one might not be the one you were thinking of....that one goes back a bit.

I'm leading a hiking group to Owl's Head, via Bushwhack, on the 18th. I'm in the Whites nearly every weekend.

I'm planning on being at the Monadnock gathering in October and the Hancock Whackfest in November.

Bob
 
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