Address change for Northeast 111ers

[Raymond]

I sent off my 111er report earlier this week, and today, September 18, 2004, I received in the mail a post card from Priscilla Robertson which states that she is no longer on the 111 Committee, and she has forwarded my application to

Eugene Daniell III
42 Eastman Street
Concord, NH 03301-5409

The 111ers' own Web site still has her address listed, so prospective applicants may want to take note that Gene seems to be the one in charge of the 111ers now.

Mohamed E. and Charles L. may want to update their Web sites, too.

 

[ken]

congratulations - too bad you didn't make it sooner - you would get your patch in 2 weeks - now it will be 1/2 year - - i don't like the way that the AMC has weaseled thier way into everything in and about new england hiking - - - they run the new hampshire 4000 footers list, the new england 4000 footers list, the new england 100 highest list and now the AMC has taken over the northeast 111/115ers - - - as soon as i heard that priscilla robertson (111/115ers) was retireing and handing it over to them (the AMC) i volunteered to take it over for her. but it wasn't meant to be, she was already giving it up to them and the AMC wouldn't have it any other way. it used to take 2 weeks for your patch from the 111/115ers, when you finish your 115 now you will have the 6 month bureaucratic wait like the other AMC lists for your patch and recognition, just leave a space for it... it will come someday just like the other 4000 footer patches did - - - - in n.y. we have a different one running each list. we have the adirondack 46ers, and the catskill 35ers, and both are seperate from each other and any hiking club (and your patch and congratulations letter take 2 weeks) - the adirondack mountain club has nothing to do with any peak list and the camaraderie in both the 35ers & 46ers is much better than in the bureaucratic AMC 4000' clubs - - - - - also there is another reason the 111/115ers should not be "owned" by the AMC - there are many more new yorkers that have finished the 115 than new englanders, almost half of all finishers are from n.y. (15-20 more would make 1/2), the other half are from the rest of the world) - don't get me wrong, i like the AMC for the most part, but they are just too big to really care about us!

 

[maineguy]

It would be difficult to get your certificate in 2 weeks unless you had already been assigned a 46er number and had already gotten your certificate for the NE4K. Then, after climbing the 2 peaks in the Cats, you could apply for your 115 certificate and promptly be awarded it.

However, it has been my personal observation that Gene Daniel has lots of duties (whether official AMC or not) regarding peakbagging committees, etc. I think that he is overwhelmed and adding to his already substantial workload does not seem to be a good idea. It will, in all probability, slow things down.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

The 111ers' own Web site ...

Where is the 111ers site (as opposed to Charles' unofficial site)?

Mohamed E. and Charles L. may want to update their Web sites, too.

I have added contact information for the 111ers on my site.

 

[Puma concolor]

One of the things I always liked about Priscilla Robertson running the 111ers was how personal it was. Whenever you corresponded with her, she was sure to reply with a nice personal hand written note. She did a great job for many years and I am grateful for all that she gave to the club. Of the various patches I've earned, the 111 patch is the one that means the most to me, largely in part because of the informal way Robertson ran things.

It's funny that Ken mentioned volunteering to take over for Robertson as I too had considered volunteering. I had drafted a similar letter back in January but didn't send it as I wasn't 100-percent sure I could give enough time to the increasing responsibilities. Basically, I was afraid it would take away from my hiking time.

As for Gene Daniells taking over, I too have mixed feelings. While he has certainly proved himself over the years with the various AMC Peakbagging Clubs, he definitely already has a lot on his plate. The correspondence I received from him after doing the 48/67 were impersonal form letters. Of course, with so many applicants, this is really the only way to go. But now, I suspect the 111/115 will become an equally impersonal completion list.

As a 111er, I think I'd rather see Ken or someone with new enthusiasm take over the responsibilites. None of this is to take away from Gene Daniells contributions over the years.

 

[ken]

>>It would be difficult to get your certificate in 2 weeks<<

i wasn't talking about the certificate - i said patch and recognition (recognition is the congratulations letter).

>>it has been my personal observation that Gene Daniel has lots of duties (whether official AMC or not) regarding peakbagging committees, etc. I think that he is overwhelmed and adding to his already substantial workload does not seem to be a good idea. It will, in all probability, slow things down.<<

my point exactly - that is why i volunteered to help gene out after i finally called him after 3 months waiting for my 48 & 67 patches (telling him i already had the 111 in 2 weeks) and he told me that it was a lot of work - his answer to my offer was "you can't help, you live in new york"... and i also volunteered to take over the 111/115 when i heard that priscilla was "retireing" since it wouldn't matter where i lived for that one (especially since more new yorkers have done it than new englanders) - if gene is overwhelmed he should accept help.

>>this committee is not an official part of the AMC<<

if you have the patches read them they both say "AMC 4000" (now the 111 patch will probably say "AMC" on it too now that they took it over) - if "4000" is not an official part of the AMC they should get thier "AMC" off everything that says "4000"

>>As for levels of beauracracy - some would point out that the levels of paperwork required by the 46ers, of when to report, how to report, the titles assigned at various stages (.i.e. aspiring 46er ) to be a bit over the top<<

but from the 46ers you will have your congratulations letter in 2 weeks after climbing your last peak your patch in one week after that - - - - - not 6 months like the AMC 48 & 67.

now that the 111/115 belongs to the same crew it will be the same 6 month wait - that is why i volunteered - no one should have to wait that long - if they are "overwhelmed" they should get more help.

for those of you working on the 111/115 and finishing... i feel sorry for you if you finish in new hampshire - if they handle the 115ers like they handle the 48ers & 67ers you will not only be waiting 6 months for 2 patches (48 & 67) - you will now be waiting for 3 at the same time (48, 67 & 111).

>>Of the various patches I've earned, the 111 patch is the one that means the most to me<<
that is why it shouldn't take 6 months to get it - you worked hard for it - you have the right to wear it !

 

[maineguy]

Ken, you raise many good points. I didn't realize that you get your patch and congratulations letter from the 46ers before you get assigned a climbing number. That IS good news. I'm glad that I'll be finishing in NY.

You are also correct about the fact that if volunteers are overwhelmed, they should get help. I'll go one step further and suggest that paid staff perform these functions. After all, the patches (48 and 67) do bear the AMC name.

The 46ers have much more work to do with answering each trip report one submits, and those letters are personalized. Maybe the 46ers could teach the AMC how to speed up the process?

 

[Puma concolor]

Ken for President

I don't want to turn this into a slam the AMC-athon. But why would a club that basically ignores 75-percent of the mountains it claims to represent now want to have its hand in the Adirondacks and Catskills, which were formed by entirely different geologic events? Don't forget, Ken, that the 4000-footer committee also runs the NE Highest Hundred list. So now, one guy overseeing one committee is basically running four major clubs. This shouldn't be. The 111ers have always been independent of the 46Rs, the 3500 Club and the AMC and it should remain that way. On one hand, I respect Robertson's wishes, but on the other, 111er members should have been given some say in this. I know you'd do a good job and I don't mind sending a letter to Gene Daniels on your behalf if you still want to do it and enough support for you is given here.

 

[ken]

i knew gene also did the 100 highest - i just didn't mention it here because we were talking about 4000 footers - i don't see any significance in the "100" anyway and will probably never persue that one - the 100 do not really fall into any catagory - i think the P2K is more significant since they do meet a criteria to qualify for the list (i wonder if the AMC will be getting thier claws into that list too) - - - - - - i think priscilla just gave in to them because she already knew them since she was a longtime AMC member (and on AMC boards) - i also spoke to millie (on the 111ers board) and she didn't seem too worried that the AMC was taking it over - she said it has really been AMC all along since priscilla was also on all the AMC boards (don't see why being both on 4000 footer board and 111er board makes both boards one?) - - - i heard rumors at the VFTT gathering saturday that the 111 patch was being redesigned - probably getting "AMC" put in place of the the "111" like the others - none of the others have a number (like 111, 67 or 48) they just say "AMC 4000" so i guess the "111" was replaced with the "AMC" and it will just say "AMC 4000" like the other 2 - - awhile back (before i heard of her retirement) i had asked priscilla about the prospects of a 115 patch - her answer was "since many of the 111ers are too old to persue the other four there are no plans to change it to 115 since they wouldn't be able to use it".

>>Ken for President<<
i don't have to be president just to make sure that the patches get out in a timely manner.

>>I don't mind sending a letter to Gene Daniels on your behalf if you still want to do it and enough support for you is given here.<<
so far you are my only supporter but a letter can't hurt since he does seem to be "overwhelmed" and he even admits it and uses it as a reason for "the 6 month wait".

 

[ken]

By the way - i am a member of the AMC - i like a lot about them, i just think they are too big to care about us.

 

[Puma concolor]

Ken -

Check your Private Messages ... it has my new e-mail address and other ideas.

Any other 111ers out there with thoughts on this? Let's hear from you.

 

[erd]

AMC & 111 etc

The AMC does many good things BUT to my mind it's a very hierarchical, top-down organization. By one knowledgeable account, they cut off all funding for their program for inner city kids this year, just pulled the plug and indicated that they were going to revamp it, but that this process would take two years. This effectively destroyed the program, which had been lauded by, of all people ... the AMC itself, as an example of the wonderful work they were doing.

If they are doing what sounds to be a power grab of the various NE hiking establishments, I would expect the free-form structure of NE hiking to become increasingly bureaucratized. This would be a great shame. I want to become a 111er, not an AMC 111er, as I do not personally endorse that organization. The achievement should, IMHO, not have institutional strings attached of any kind.

Ted

 

[spencer]

Re: AMC & 111 etc

The achievement should, IMHO, not have institutional strings attached of any kind.

Don't forget folks, this only applies to people who want a patch.

achievement doesn't = a patch


spencer

 

[erd]

Re: Re: AMC & 111 etc

I certainly don't disagree with Spencer in this regard. I'm not a big patch fan, as those who know me are aware. Mine live in various drawers. However, the 111 patch is one that has particular cachet to so many people. And few hikers are going to do the 111 (115) and not report the fact, which puts them de facto in contact with the AMC. Achievement without recognition is rarely as satisfying as achievement recognized -- it's a fairly primal human urge.

Don't forget folks, this only applies to people who want a patch.

achievement doesn't = a patch


spencer

 

[ken]

>>achievement doesn't = a patch <<

well - if it wasn't for the 46er patch and certificate what other reason would anyone have to visit mt. couchsachraga?

 

[Mark Schaefer]

if it wasn't for the 46er patch and certificate what other reason would anyone have to visit mt. couchsachraga?

Perhaps to visit the most attractive wooded summit in the Adirondacks. Got to love those mosses. Nothing dismal about this mountain. I admit that I might not have climbed (OK descended to) it had it not been on the list, and I would have been the loser. Glad the 46ers stuck with their historic list.

 

[ken]

>>Perhaps to visit the most attractive wooded summit in the Adirondacks. <<

but there are more attractive wooded summits that aren't on the list (and a lot easier to get to without bugs and swamps).

>>I admit that I might not have climbed (OK descended to) it had it not been on the list<<

that is why we have lists, patches and certificates - to get you off your butt and out to places that you would not even think of or know about if someone had not made that list for you and gave you a reason to be there - once you are done with that list another list will give you a reason to go to other places - once you are done with the lists you have to think for yourself to keep finding new places (and go back to the ones that you liked) - - - i know that without an incentive i would not have found as many places to explore (and not as far from the roads) if it wasn't for the lists and patches.

 

[Puma concolor]

From my point of view, here's the problem. Yeah, the patch is nice, but a patch doesn't make a hiking club. I'm a huge fan of both the Adirondack 46Rs and the Highpointers Club. Both of these organizations offer patches, but that's just one element of it. They both have great newsletters, websites, T-shirts/decals and really develop a sense of kinship with other like-minded folks. The Catskill 3500 Club is also very similar in this regard. Conversely, the AMC Clubs do nothing but track the number of climbers and issue patches and certificates. That's it. Once you've been recognized with your form letter, it's over and you never hear from the Four Thousand Footer Committee again.

To me, this is an opportunity for 111ers to get together and make the Club better. If enough of us expressed interest, we could go to Gene Daniells and make a compelling argument. Ken's already expressed interest in patches and correspondence; I'd be willing to do or help with a small Catskill Cannister-type newsletter. There's got to be other folks out there with interest.

 

[maineguy]

I'll do whatever I can to keep this list out of the hands of the AMC. Count me in!

 

[Puma concolor]

I don't know how to do one of those polls, but it sounds like a good idea. You make a good point, Kevin, about the number of 111 completers being far less than the number of 46 completers. But when the 46Rs of Troy started way back when, there were probably only a couple dozen members. Yeah, things are different these days with the internet and easy access to lots of information, but I still look forward to reading Adirondack Peeks twice a year. As for the Highpointers Club, only 125 people have done all 50 states and the Club's membership stands at about 2800. It is a textbook perfect Club on many levels - the magazine/newsletter is great; the conventions offer folks a chance to get together and Roger Rowlett's website is top notch. And the Club didn't even exist until the late 1980s. Anyway, I think the 111ers could model itself after these clubs, but on on a smaller scale ... again if there's enough interest with various people taking on various responsibilities.