Albany Mountain Trail Issue

[TCD]

I would argue that people ignoring that they're causing environmental damage cause environmental damage, not a closure in and of itself...

But that is the population that is out there right now. Reality. Competent managers manage based on reality. "Managers" that are working in an imaginary world are not competent.

Related: https://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?61795-Bootleg-sign&p=459653&viewfull=1#post459653

 

[rocket21]

I would argue that people ignoring that they're causing environmental damage cause environmental damage, not a closure in and of itself...

That view ledge has been a destination for a very long time. If you have a number of people trying to access it the same way (in this case, logically via the summit) and you don't provide a sustainable, unified path, you're going to get a mess of herd paths/trail creep/environmental damage. Few have any idea of the damage their own individual set of steps causes; it is accumulative. See: Black Pond "bushwhack," Brutus "bushwhack," "Engine Hill bushwhack."

 

[peakbagger]

The proverbial cat is out of the bag on that view given current technology. Unfortunately GPS tech is not that precise to define an exact path so it leads to a band of damage. If I remember correctly the defined herd path meandered a bit to pick up several views not available at the end of the official trail.

I seem to remember references in prior WMGs that would reference off trail bushwhacks on rare occasions usually on lesser used mountains. I think Zealand was the perfect example, when I first hiked the list long ago, there was no herd path, the woods were trampled. Many just regarded the high spot on the trail as the summit. Several years later when I came by it was obvious that someone had created a formal path by establishing a path of least resistance and installed a sign. The same with Cabot. I think such descriptions usually started with something to the effect that "Intrepid trampers may roam around in the woods to obtain a view"

IMHO the AMC WMG risks getting more irrelevant to other far less reliable media if it intentionally leave out references to known routes and views. Using the logic applied on Albany mountain, all references to a route up Owls Head should be removed from the WMG since the Owls Head Path does not officially exist per the USFS.

The USFS does on rare occasions manage to reality. Per Wilderness regulations, 13 Falls campsite should not exist nor should it have an official caretaker or platforms. There are official signed designated campsites in the Great Gulf wilderness and Pemi wilderness that violate the 200 foot rule. I think sometimes in very rare occasions common sense in the USFS seems to prevail that the best option is to minimize damage to the resource by managing the impact but it seems to be atypical for the bureaucracy.

 

[Salty]

But that is the population that is out there right now. Reality. Competent managers manage based on reality. "Managers" that are working in an imaginary world are not competent.

Understood, but I bristle at the notion that it's one entity's fault and that hikers carry no personal responsibility.

That view ledge has been a destination for a very long time. If you have a number of people trying to access it the same way (in this case, logically via the summit) and you don't provide a sustainable, unified path, you're going to get a mess of herd paths/trail creep/environmental damage. Few have any idea of the damage their own individual set of steps causes; it is accumulative. See: Black Pond "bushwhack," Brutus "bushwhack," "Engine Hill bushwhack."

Signage would help (Keep out - revegetating, etc.), closure orders as well. At least then that takes away the ignorance factor (which, like the law, I don't buy into either) on hikers. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing to close the spur, I'm saying it is what it is. I am not, however, very supportive that popular or even all major herd paths should be made into a trail in the name of ecology (Owl's Head would be an exception - you can't tell people not to summit and the ridge is a natural funnel). You list the obvious 3, but just a small few I can think of: Mt. Nancy, Mt. Bemis, an illegally cut spur to a view ledge on Garfield Ridge Trail, Vose Spur, PatN, Hale Firewarden's, Adams Slide, oh yes, and for some dumb reason a cut path to the summit of Table (the woods were open!), and on and on. And so, then all one has to do is cut their own path to wherever, make sure it gets used enough, and presto! I got my own trail made!

 

[rocket21]

Understood, but I bristle at the notion that it's one entity's fault and that hikers carry no personal responsibility.



Signage would help (Keep out - revegetating, etc.), closure orders as well. At least then that takes away the ignorance factor (which, like the law, I don't buy into either) on hikers. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing to close the spur, I'm saying it is what it is.

It is one of the most spectacular view ledges in that section of the WMNF and locals have been going there for years. It should NOT be closed.

I have spent a lot of time volunteering for multiple trail maintenance organizations mitigating trail creep/erosion/environmental damage. In my opinion, the Forest Service did a good thing by having a unified cairned path to that view. The current Forest Service management in that sector did a disservice to hikers and the environment by having it disbanded (in an environmentally detrimental fashion), and by treating a long-term, Forest Service-commended volunteer with disdain.

 

[ChrisB]

It is one of the most spectacular view ledges in that section of the WMNF and locals have been going there for years. It should NOT be closed.

I have spent a lot of time volunteering for multiple trail maintenance organizations mitigating trail creep/erosion/environmental damage. In my opinion, the Forest Service did a good thing by having a unified cairned path to that view...

Agreed. It seems to me if the trail was mentioned in the WMG and elsewhere, the horse had already left the barn on this issue.

The pic is a screen scrape of a Gaia topo, which shows a trail going beyond the summit and ending at a drop off. Not sure this is the view shed but if it is and Gaia knows about it, it's an established trail that WILL be followed by Gaia users and others.