All Trails Strikes again - Hiker rescue on Osceola

[peakbagger]

https://nhfishgame.com/2023/07/28/hiker-rescued-from-mount-osceola/

 

[maineguy]

https://nhfishgame.com/2023/07/28/hiker-rescued-from-mount-osceola/

How is All Trails responsible for this rescue? Serious question, I am not familiar with that app, or any hiking app for that matter. The article states she was "led off trail". Not sure exactly what that means.

 

[Ear Drum]

How is All Trails responsible for this rescue? Serious question, I am not familiar with that app, or any hiking app for that matter. The article states she was "led off trail". Not sure exactly what that means.

Similar to how folks might blindly follow the directions given by a navigation app in the car, and do something dumb like drive into water (which recently happened in Hawai'i - twice, apparently). Here, the hiker was probably trying to follow a track on their app, and went off trail. Meaning, they didn't notice they were off-trail, until it was too late.

 

[peakbagger]

All Trails scrapes trail descriptions from many sources and is not very adept at making a differentiation between easy and hard trails. Many users are spur of the moment hikers that really do not plan very well. The trail descriptions are rarely adequate for actual navigation.

 

[CaptCaper]

I'm in the Black Hills SD for the summer and I must admit the All Trails app has been good to use and get an accurate idea on where and what trails are around and what to expect.
As we know one source isn't key. But All trails ( I only have the free version) has given us some nice hikes to find easily. One trail recently was Boulder Hill in Rockerville area which wasn't listed in many books,etc. But it is still in the Nat Forest. And was a great hike.

 

[Ken MacGray]

Unfortunately, All Trails is loaded with incorrect information that many newer hikers rely on as a sole source, bypassing guidebooks and maps.

I also wish these press releases could be double-checked for accuracy. There is nothing called "Osceola Trail".

 

[maineguy]

So, with All Trails you don't get gps data, only a trail description?

 

[Ear Drum]

Here's another mistake, the non-existent "Lakes of the Clouds Trail":

https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail/us/new-hampshire/lakes-of-the-clouds-trail

At least they got it right that both Lakes and Clouds are plural!

 

[NH2112]

So, with All Trails you don't get gps data, only a trail description?

GPS data as in coordinates you can program as waypoints? Not that I’m aware of, and I use the Pro version for everything. Here’s what the map screen looks like. So you get a map in one of several formats with the trail highlighted, and an elevation gain diagram that’s not to scale at all - it makes the trail look much steeper than it is. Whether you’re using a trail map or just using the “Navigate” function while bushwhacking, your actual route is tracked so all you have to do is follow your outbound route back. Are there inaccuracies? Yes, sometimes the highlighted route doesn’t match the trail, but that could also be due to a very old map edition not showing the location of the current trail.

The app has the tools you need, if you don’t know how to use them that’s not the app’s fault.

 

[maineguy]

GPS data as in coordinates you can program as waypoints? Not that I’m aware of, and I use the Pro version for everything. Here’s what the map screen looks like. So you get a map in one of several formats with the trail highlighted, and an elevation gain diagram that’s not to scale at all - it makes the trail look much steeper than it is. Whether you’re using a trail map or just using the “Navigate” function while bushwhacking, your actual route is tracked so all you have to do is follow your outbound route back. Are there inaccuracies? Yes, sometimes the highlighted route doesn’t match the trail, but that could also be due to a very old map edition not showing the location of the current trail.

The app has the tools you need, if you don’t know how to use them that’s not the app’s fault.

OK, thanks for that description. So the gps tracks your actual position. But, if the trail as laid out in the program is incorrect, then you could be on the actual trail but the app would show you to be off trail. I can see where that might be a problem. I've ordered a gps (my first for hiking) unit because the trails out here can be a little confusing (junctions without signage) and if you get off trail you could be wandering for a very long time.

 

[skiguy]

GPS data as in coordinates you can program as waypoints? Not that I’m aware of, and I use the Pro version for everything. Here’s what the map screen looks like. So you get a map in one of several formats with the trail highlighted, and an elevation gain diagram that’s not to scale at all - it makes the trail look much steeper than it is. Whether you’re using a trail map or just using the “Navigate” function while bushwhacking, your actual route is tracked so all you have to do is follow your outbound route back. Are there inaccuracies? Yes, sometimes the highlighted route doesn’t match the trail, but that could also be due to a very old map edition not showing the location of the current trail.

The app has the tools you need, if you don’t know how to use them that’s not the app’s fault.

Yes a map can be old and not correctly overlay with a current GPS track. Although the opposite can be true also. The biggest problem with All Trails is that it is user based. Tracks can vary. Never hurts to have good paper map and compass skills in addition to off trail navigation understanding. Maybe DougPaul will chime in. He is the authority on this subject on this board. GPS.gov: GPS Accuracy

 

[NH2112]

Here are a few screenshots of a hike up Sally Mountain in Jackman ME a few months ago. The difference between where the map says the trail is and my actual track is pretty significant in places. I was on the blazed trail the entire way.

 

[NH2112]

Another example of discrepancies between the map and the ground, most likely due to old map data. The red circled area in the 2nd pic is where I was in the 3rd pic, and according to the plain map in the 1st pic there should have been an ATV or foot trail at most in that spot.

 

[sierra]

I started using Alltrails about a 2 years ago, just for fun. it was the first hiking app I ever used. I liked it so much, I upgraded to the pro version this year and I think it's a fantastic app. Granted, I'm old school and carry paper maps and study my routes at home pre-hike, but to blame Alltrails on getting lost is like getting directions from a stranger on the street and blaming them when you get lost. I know I'm setting the bar high for the youngsters, who grab a phone and go, but the only person to blame when you get lost will meet you in the mirror every morning.
P.S. I did try Cal topo first upon the recommendations of some of my adept hiking friends, holy cow was that complicated for me, Alltrails is more my speed. There are only two mountains I have ever climbed without a paper map, Mt. Magalloway and Sugarloaf Mt. (Stratford) because I couldn't find them, (although neither peak really needs one, they are quite hard to get lost on).

 

[NH2112]

Yes, an app or person is only as good as the info it’s been given. I like AllTrails because it lets me use the USGS maps I’m familiar with and doesn’t have all kinds of crap cluttering it up. One thing I‘d like to see is the ability to toggle your track on/off, but it’s not that big a deal.

 

[skiguy]

Here are a few screenshots of a hike up Sally Mountain in Jackman ME a few months ago. The difference between where the map says the trail is and my actual track is pretty significant in places. I was on the blazed trail the entire way.

So the question I would have what is the verification of the of the GPS Data vs. your Map. Do you know that it is absolutely correct or could there be some variation in your track aside from what the printed data on your map says. Not that the map data may be incorrect or visa versa with your GPS data. Did the blazed trail get you there following the Map or did you follow the GPS data and then extrapolate that data to keep you on the treadway. IMO either is only an approximation of your true location in between waypoints. I think GPS is a useful tool in addition to Map and Compass. Relying entirely on All Trails to get you there is suspect IMO again because of the user base data and incongruent track info between users. Yes some places are probably better documented than others of course. Personally I wouldn't be using All Trails as my only source of navigation in my toolbox. Using All Trails exclusively might have been what got the person off trail who got rescued in the OP.

 

[NH2112]

So the question I would have what is the verification of the of the GPS Data vs. your Map. Do you know that it is absolutely correct or could there be some variation in your track aside from what the printed data on your map says. Not that the map data may be incorrect or visa versa with your GPS data. Did the blazed trail get you there following the Map or did you follow the GPS data and then extrapolate that data to keep you on the treadway. IMO either is only an approximation of your true location in between waypoints. I think GPS is a useful tool in addition to Map and Compass. Relying entirely on All Trails to get you there is suspect IMO again because of the user base data and incongruent track info between users. Yes some places are probably better documented than others of course. Personally I wouldn't be using All Trails as my only source of navigation in my toolbox. Using All Trails exclusively might have been what got the person off trail who got rescued in the OP.

I followed the blazed trail and just used AllTrails to keep track of my path. Whether the actual path has moved in relation to its location on the map or GPS inaccuracy shows my recorded track as being some distance from my actual track, I don’t know.

When I hiked in the Whites and Cumberland/Oxford/York counties in Maine I always had a paper map and just mainly used AllTrails to get an idea of distance traveled from time to time. Here around Jackman I don’t bother with paper maps because I’m almost always bushwhacking or following trails that aren’t listed on AllTrails and the USGS topo maps on AllTrails tell me everything I need to know. My phone stays in my pocket unless I want to estimate how much farther I need to go to reach a certain point or pick a route around an obstacle not shown on the map. I use a combination of memorizing the map, landmarks, and celestial navigation, along with a pretty good sense of direction and distance. Looking at my phone to retrace every step would be too time-consuming but it does work. So does using it to take the most direct route to the trail or your last known location, assuming you can walk a straight line using some method.

 

[ChrisB]

Don't blame the app. This is clearly a case of pilot error. From the F&G report...

... the stranded hiker called 911 and reported that she had inadvertently left the Osceola Trail and when she encountered the exposed bare rock she thought it was the trail and continued up. As the terrain got steeper she realized she could not continue.

Maybe she was up near the cleft just below the summit? Winter route goes left there I recall.

 

[TEO]

Here are a few screenshots of a hike up Sally Mountain in Jackman ME a few months ago. The difference between where the map says the trail is and my actual track is pretty significant in places. I was on the blazed trail the entire way.

The USGS quads are notorious for not showing accurate trail locations, either showing old or just plain wrong trail routes or not showing them at all. If you're on Forest Service land, their maps are excellent. Mapbuilder is usually pretty good at showing current trail locations. For most bushwhacks, I'll typically use Mapbuilder, USGS, and satellite photos of the same section at the same scale, with the course bearings written on either the Mapbuilder or USGS copy. If I'm on FS land, the FS map is the primary.