Anybody Know This Guy?

[DayTrip]

Does anyone know the hiker in these trip reports?

http://newenglandtrailconditions.com/nh/viewreport.php?entryid=16195

"Some face slappers here and there, I broke off my share and if everyone pitched in taking a few out on every hike, soon these potential eye hazards and clothes snatchers could be virtually eliminated."

Third trail report I see from him about snapping off face slappers and how if everyone did some on each hike they would cease to exist. I hate to just randomly email the guy and mention what poor etiquette it is to snap off tree limbs that will be three feet over his head in a few weeks but the thought of this guy pruning every trail he goes up is a little disheartening. Doesn't sound like he is the trail care taker from how he describes his activities.

Figured maybe he is on VFTT or someone knows him if he is such a regular poster. Am I wrong to be bothered by this? Am I being an ass to email him a link to Leave No Trace? If I saw him on the trail I would certainly say something.

 

[TCD]

I would say that you should find out first what the maintenance standard is for the trail(s) in question. If the trail is intended for winter use, it may be appropriate to remove branches that are in the way in the winter, regardless of the fact that they will not be in the way in the summer. It depends on who has jurisdiction over the trail, and what their rules are. This may be perfectly appropriate and approved user maintenance, not a "leave no trace" violation.

 

[rocket21]

So long as the brushing is done properly and the trail isn't under ridiculous Wilderness regulations (6 feet of height clearance? Oy.), I don't see the big deal. There are a heck of a lot of trails in the WMNF in dire need of brushing.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

And a heck of a lot of trails that have been brushed recently. At least on my recent whirlwind peak bagging tour only Carrigain leaps to mind about needing a good brushing. And maybe Franconia Ridge between Little Haystack and Liberty Springs.

I remember years ago how bad the Handcocks and Wildcats were. That was bad.

6 feet? I can't believe the government discriminates against us 6 footers.

Tim

 

[Lefty E]

AMC recommends trail adopter try to hike his/her trail in winter to check out protruding branches, and trim as needed...but you are right about just breaking them off. It should be done properly as rocket21 stated. If you do a trail condition report, maybe you could hint heavily the proper way to trim those pesky protruders!! (and dispose of out of view hopefully)!!

 

[Fisher Cat]

And a heck of a lot of trails that have been brushed recently. At least on my recent whirlwind peak bagging tour only Carrigain leaps to mind about needing a good brushing. And maybe Franconia Ridge between Little Haystack and Liberty Springs.

I remember years ago how bad the Handcocks and Wildcats were. That was bad.

6 feet? I can't believe the government discriminates against us 6 footers.



Tim

I'm the RL over Franconia South for AMC Adopt a Trail, and all I can say is we are in the process of brushing out the section of FRT between Little Haystack & Liberty. We spent almost 10hrs in hot stinky sticky humidity last July brushing out, and its better than its been in years. We are not done yet, but when travelling north from Liberty to Little Haystack, we got to visual sight of Little Haystack, then had to stop. We are picking it up again this year. Its a thankless job.

 

[Lefty E]

I'm the RL over Franconia South for AMC Adopt a Trail, and all I can say is we are in the process of brushing out the section of FRT between Little Haystack & Liberty. We spent almost 10hrs in hot stinky sticky humidity last July brushing out, and its better than its been in years. We are not done yet, but when travelling north from Liberty to Little Haystack, we got to visual sight of Little Haystack, then had to stop. We are picking it up again this year. Its a thankless job.

And it would be great to get some help for that, wouldn't it, Fisher Cat???!!

 

[TJsName]

In general that guy is probably more part of the solution than problem. I frequently do little bits of maintenance as I go along (mostly brushing or unclogging a water bar). If someone started to quote LNT to me, I would think they must be talking about how to dispose of their body.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

It is better than last year for sure. (Hence 'maybe'). Advertise these work trips and maybe some people will come help.

THANK YOU


Tim

 

[DayTrip]

OK so we're saying go ahead and snap off tree branches as we see fit ??? This guy was on the Webster-Jackson trail on his way to Jackson and really does not sound like anyone affiliated with any trail adoption or maintenance program. He sounds like he doesn't enjoy working his way through low branches when the snow is deep because they hang up on his pack. Welcome to winter hiking...

And with regard to trail brushing isn't that generally done in the summer? I get that trails need to be brushed from time to time but Webster-Jackson hardly seems to qualify. I've been on that trail this winter and it was pretty comfortably wide and high, and I'm 6' 3". There are far worse trails than this. I take "brushing" to be the removal of fairly small bush like growth that obscures the path, removing blowdowns and other debris. But snapping the branches off of trees that are 6-10' off the ground (when you take into account the 3-5' of snow you're walking on)? That certainly doesn't sound right.

Oh well. I guess I'll mind my own business but this guy doesn't sound like he's doing proper trail maintenance. I'll follow the Kinda' Don't Leave A Trace Unless It's Inconvenient program going forward.

 

[KPMMBM]

I'm the RL over Franconia South for AMC Adopt a Trail, and all I can say is we are in the process of brushing out the section of FRT between Little Haystack & Liberty. We spent almost 10hrs in hot stinky sticky humidity last July brushing out, and its better than its been in years. We are not done yet, but when travelling north from Liberty to Little Haystack, we got to visual sight of Little Haystack, then had to stop. We are picking it up again this year. Its a thankless job.

thank you for all you and your crew do!

 

[DayTrip]

I would say that you should find out first what the maintenance standard is for the trail(s) in question. If the trail is intended for winter use, it may be appropriate to remove branches that are in the way in the winter, regardless of the fact that they will not be in the way in the summer. It depends on who has jurisdiction over the trail, and what their rules are. This may be perfectly appropriate and approved user maintenance, not a "leave no trace" violation.

How do you look up this info? I remember coming across a PDF file that had a lot of info about what constitutes Zone I, Zone II, blah, blah, blah but it didn't get too specific for non Wilderness areas. Is there such a thing as a list of each trail and what standards they should conform to? Do you look up by AMC, RMC, etc or did you mean another governing body like WMNF, etc? Would be curious to find that info.

 

[summitseeker]

First off I should say, that I do not know who this person is but SteveR and I did Jackson on Sunday and I don't recall many "face slappers".

It is true that when you are standing on top of 3-4 feet of snow the more routinely pruned branches are beneath you but this person is making a call to arms against limbs for no justifiable reason.

If the snow was 20 feet high would be de-limb a canopy? Of course I am being facetious, but I can honestly say this trail is in great shape. Maybe he would prefer a paved sidewalk with handrails, or an escalator...that would be sweet

Z

 

[DayTrip]

I'm the RL over Franconia South for AMC Adopt a Trail, and all I can say is we are in the process of brushing out the section of FRT between Little Haystack & Liberty. We spent almost 10hrs in hot stinky sticky humidity last July brushing out, and its better than its been in years. We are not done yet, but when travelling north from Liberty to Little Haystack, we got to visual sight of Little Haystack, then had to stop. We are picking it up again this year. Its a thankless job.

I went through the section coming up Liberty Springs to FRT heading to Liberty on 2/20/14 and it certainly had some serious overhanging limbs with the snow on them. Was a struggle for sure but I never thought to just start snapping branches out of the way. I'm sure that grueling 10 hr day you spent there in July was to make sure it was done properly. I certainly appreciate the hard work you and other trail adopters put in on the trails. But I don't know if "deputizing" anyone and everyone to start breaking limbs off will get the desired effect.

Do you guys ever do winter maintenance? As I mentioned in another reply I thought this was a summer activity. Curious on the process. Don't know a lot about it other than it is seriously hard work. I remember meeting a guy on Franconia Ridge around Lincoln last summer on an 80 deg F, windless day carrying a huge pack, a bucket full of tools and carrying a shovel and pick. There was not one ounce of enjoyment in his face as he labored up the ridge. I think a lot of the people on VFTT know and appreciate the work you guys are doing.

 

[DayTrip]

First off I should say, that I do not know who this person is but SteveR and I did Jackson on Sunday and I don't recall many "face slappers".

It is true that when you are standing on top of 3-4 feet of snow the more routinely pruned branches are beneath you but this person is making a call to arms against limbs for no justifiable reason.

If the snow was 20 feet high would be de-limb a canopy? Of course I am being facetious, but I can honestly say this trail is in great shape. Maybe he would prefer a paved sidewalk with handrails, or an escalator...that would be sweet

Z

His exact words were that "he broke off his fair share". That doesn't sound like proper trail maintenance. Hopefully he was talking about those tiny dead points on pine trees and not full healthy branches, but I doubt it. I wish I could remember the other two reports I saw these comments in. I recall those trails were in similarly good shape too.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

OK so we're saying go ahead and snap off tree branches as we see fit ??? This guy was on the Webster-Jackson trail on his way to Jackson and really does not sound like anyone affiliated with any trail adoption or maintenance program. He sounds like he doesn't enjoy working his way through low branches when the snow is deep because they hang up on his pack. Welcome to winter hiking...

While you're out there not breaking off little twigs, could you also be sure not to knock the snow off the branches as you pass? And please, fill in your snowshoe track behind you as you go (both ways!)

Tim

 

[DayTrip]

While you're out there not breaking off little twigs, could you also be sure not to knock the snow off the branches as you pass? And please, fill in your snowshoe track behind you as you go (both ways!)

Tim

Not likely with my 6' 3" frame. Would you really deprive me of all the festive "snow down the neck" moments I have grown fond of? I'll meet you half way on the snow shoe track and make huge post holes so that guy has a nice neat place to put all the snapped off branches in. It will be like lush green carpet for everyone to walk on. Now that is trail maintenance! We can add a new 4k list: The Luxury 48.

 

[Fisher Cat]

First, we have an EXCELLENT crew in the Franconia South Region. This project to brush out that section of FRT is a group effort to help out the adopter who has that assigned section. So they really bust hard, not only their own trails, but helping a fellow regional adopter is awesome. All credit goes to them. I think I am still finding needles in my hair.

That being said, a truly well-done brush project with good technique can really only be done with the right tools and a measure of training. The rest is practice practice practice. When done correctly, any causal hiker may not even be able to discern brushing has been done. A really good brushing job is a work of art and blends in with the environment.

Lastly, I do brush in the summer but am ever mindful of what winter hikers could be impeded by. If there is something I can perceive that would impede a winter hiker, I take it out, That being said, one week of winter completely unhinges everything you can do in the summer. It can never be predicted perfectly.

Thanks to all of you for your kind comments. But I am one of many.......

 

[Raven]

There was a very good thread a couple winters back (maybe last) on what constitues appropriate maintenance by non-trail workers. There probably wasn't consensus but many of us (I am a trail adopter as well) thought the line should be drawn at using tools with possibly the exception of trained (or knowledgeable) people using a little hand saw. I don't have time to find it now, but this very thing was discussed and had some thoughtful comments.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I brush out the trail I adopted with as light touch as possible every spring. I like to think of my section as a bonsai tree & I do apply the wilderness standards for corridor brushing that I was taught [imagine a door sweeping through the forest, prune at the base, avoid creating dangerous spikes].

I may have too light a touch. I saw in a trail report that the AMC (or USFS) had a crew brushing out from 13 Falls to the height of land last fall. You do develop a sense of ownership so I am antsy to get out there to see what was done.