Are we ruining the earth or ruining the experience?

[Pete_Hickey]

Who could argue with that! There are some secrets I keep; my favorite fishing hole, my favorite berry patch and owl nesting sites.

Because you KNOW what would happen if you told too many people, right?

 

[Nessmuk]

Who could argue with that! There are some secrets I keep; my favorite fishing hole, my favorite berry patch and owl nesting sites.

One of the reasons I with mixed feelings subscribe to the "Adirondack Explorer" is to find out which of my own "best kept secrets" they are giving away this month.

 

[Neil]

You never hear a guy saying, "I had a great time with my wife last night. You should try her." Not even to his best friend. But you will hear someone telling scores of strangers to climb some great peak.

That is priceless, truly priceless. Whatever they're paying you Pete, it aint enough!


However, unlike their wives, (or fishing spot) how many guys are going to go back and re-climb Cheney Cobble or Calamity Mtn? (Sorry for all the ADK references, it's all I know) Maybe knowing in the back of their minds that they will never be going back makes it easier to share the info.

 

[Puck]

One of the reasons I with mixed feelings subscribe to the "Adirondack Explorer" is to find out which of my own "best kept secrets" they are giving away this month.

My friend's secret spot was on the cover of an LL Bean Catalog. The best keppt secrets are shared 20,000 of your closest friends.

 

[spaddock]

Why is it that when we experience a good hike, we want to share it, and have others do it too?

So nobody should write a guidebook, ever?

You never hear a guy saying, "I had a great time with my wife last night. You should try her." Not even to his best friend. But you will hear someone telling scores of strangers to climb some great peak

I know you were using this as an over the top example, but in the way you described, my wife belongs to me, just as I belong to her. Whereas the forest belongs to everybody.

It's just human nature that when somebody experiences something they consider fantastic, they want to share it with others. Some tell a few good friends, others post it on the Internet. Change your example from "wife", to "girl/guy" you met at a bar and I bet word would get out around locker rooms pretty quickly.

It's also pretty tough not to tell people where you go. Take my canoeing trip last July. Buddy says: "Where'd you go for vacation", Me: "Canoeing near Sudbury", Buddy: "Oh yeah, which lakes?", Me: "I don't want to say", Buddy: "Come on, I want to hear about it". Doesn't work too well, at least in my experience.

I agree with Neil, that everybody is out there for a different experience. I definitely have a "better" experience when there are less crowds on the trail. For that reason I try not to hike in the summer, and when I do, not park at the Loj. Just like I wouldn't want to go to Disney World over Christmas or Spring Break.


-Shayne

 

[Rik]

So nobody should write a guidebook, ever?




-Shayne

This question has been in my mind since these (summit registers, are we ruining...,list dilemma,....) threads came up. Mentioned has been the influence of the internet, lists, word of mouth, peakbagging clubs, and more, but what about the guidebooks? Where did I first see a list? ADks High Peaks guide lists the hundred highest right in the back. Then I looked at the White Mountain Guide. Another list. Catskill guide? Another list. As a newcomer starting a new hobby one could easily think "this is hiking". I found my way up the 46 with a guide book and mediocre map skills as the book told me where to go. I think you can get the New England Highest Hundred list with published hints just by asking. In Bruce Scofield's book "Highpeaks of the Northeast" he puts in several lists and then compiles one of his own at the back of the book. Should this be it's own thread?

 

[carole]

... Where did I first see a list? ... Should this be it's own thread?

I think this fits in right here.

 

[arghman]

So nobody should write a guidebook, ever?

I think there's a happy medium here. There's an area in Maine I visit each year which has a large number of "critical areas" (areas of critical ecological value). There are some hiking trails in the area, the key is that they focus this (relatively) low-impact tourism into a very small portion of the area as a whole.

Yes it would be better for the environment in any area if there were no hikers, but it's only a very small portion, and the fact that the area gets used and valued also leads to a sense of pride/ownership/support when it comes to securing & protecting these sorts of areas in the future. Also, the really sensitive areas will generally be off limits (either explicitly, or by not having any trails there on purpose).

 

[post'r boy]

i'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solution yet??

 

[spaddock]

However, unlike their wives, (or fishing spot) how many guys are going to go back and re-climb Cheney Cobble or Calamity Mtn? Maybe knowing in the back of their minds that they will never be going back makes it easier to share the info.

I believe that would take us back to Mavs point....

To me, its boils down to individual selfishness.

If you were the first to climb Everest, could you really keep that bottled up inside?


-Shayne

 

[sierra]

My 2 cents. IM not worried about the earth or the mountains. I feel no guilt when traveling in the mountains, I think LNT is a catch phrase that people adopted to ease their concience. We all impact the mountains when we enter them, I do the best I can not to make that impact any worse then it need be, beyond that I sleep good at night. My belief is that the earth and the mountains are for us to use and enjoy.
Imagine no herd paths and no trails, yes people certain people would still hike, but to be perfectly honest, Im not a fan of thick brush or bushwacking in the east, although I live for cross-country travel in the Rockies and Sierras. If we didnt create herd paths or trails, yes the mountains would be more pristine, but so what? what good is it if nobody is out there to enjoy it?
People are oversensitive about this issue, the fact is, the Adirondacks and the Whites are small and the amount of people (which will only increase) that have access to them is overwhelming from a use perspective, you cant make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

i'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solution yet??

No. There is none. Just realize what is happening, so that when it does, you don't say, "What happened?"

 

[post'r boy]

i believe that there will always be wilderness if you look for it. there are plenty of places. try walking to the tip of the ungava pennisula. yes i know there are inuit villages and camps widely spotting the landscape but give it a go you can dodge them and hunt little bunny rabbits and eat spruce needles for sustanance until that vast wilderness swallows you up and spits you out,hopefully back at your home instead of turning into forest duff.
there are also plenty of places left to get yourself into sufficient trouble to make you think,whew!!! my gosh,i almost died on that trip,but it sure did feel great!!
p.s. I.M.H.O. the sky is NOT falling!!!!

 

[WhiteMTHike]

I really don't think there is too much traffic on the trails in the White Mountains, however.

I agree. The first week of this month (October) I was hiking Mt. Potash and Welch/Dickey both the same day. I think I saw 2 or 3 people on Welch/Dickey and I had Potash all to myself. Now granted, this was during the week but we are talking October which is primetime in hiking season.

Personaly I don't think the amount of traffic on the trails is a problem. I live in a state where people would rather go to the area shopping malls than go on the few (pretty good) hiking trails we have. Hey, works for me, nobody else on the trails.

What we need to worry about is making sure hiking trails stay hiking trails and we don't lose our wilderness areas. Just my $.01 after taxes.

 

[spaddock]

What we need to worry about is making sure hiking trails stay hiking trails and we don't lose our wilderness areas.

Exactly. A bulldozer coming in would erode the terrain much faster than hikers would.

In my hometown we used to have a great area for mountain biking/hiking and cross country skiing and now houses are slowly starting to replace those trails!

Not that trail erosion isn't a problem, but I personally think mankind is going to destroy the earth via global warming or some kind of nuclear disaster before hiking boots destroy the forest.


-Shayne

 

[funkyfreddy]

Exactly. A bulldozer coming in would erode the terrain much faster than hikers would..........Not that trail erosion isn't a problem, but I personally think mankind is going to destroy the earth via global warming or some kind of nuclear disaster before hiking boots destroy the forest. -Shayne

I agree. if we want to talk about destroying the earth and who's responsible.... well I would put the vast majority (at least the ones I know) of mountain climbers and peakbaggers at the bottom of the list. Not that peakbaggers, hikers, etc, shouldn't be mindful of their impact but in my experience they are, at least the people I've hiked with from this newsgroup. I think the gas we use getting to the mountains does more harm than climbing them.

Now if we wanted to discuss whether the human race is destroying the earth then I would say, yes, undoubtedly - it is in many areas and in many ways. The human species is the most destructive species to have lived on this planet and our numbers are multiplying rapidly as I type this - BUT - here's the rub - human beings are also the most creative species that has lived on this planet so far, so with our great powers come great responsiblities!

I think it's up to each of us to ask ourselves what kind of world we wish to leave behind us. Do we want to preserve wilderness areas w/o trails, w/o roads, and with viable grizzly bear, mountain lion and other predator populations? Do we want to leave undisturbed the Artic National Wildlife Refuge? Do we want to leave behind undeveloped farmland and undeveloped woods in areas in or close to Boston, NJ, NYC?

 

[frytz]

Trail traffic.

I agree. The first week of this month (October) I was hiking Mt. Potash and Welch/Dickey both the same day. I think I saw 2 or 3 people on Welch/Dickey and I had Potash all to myself. Now granted, this was during the week but we are talking October which is primetime in hiking season.

Personaly I don't think the amount of traffic on the trails is a problem. I live in a state where people would rather go to the area shopping malls than go on the few (pretty good) hiking trails we have. Hey, works for me, nobody else on the trails.

What we need to worry about is making sure hiking trails stay hiking trails and we don't lose our wilderness areas. Just my $.01 after taxes.

I do most of my hiking within a 60 mile radius of New York City! I hike every area, and almost every day! On weekdays, I can hike all day and am lucky to see 2 or 3 other people on the trails! Even on weekends, there are limited areas that draw high traffic!
Come to think of it, maybe I am wearing out the trails all by myself by hiking every day!!

Fred

 

[Neil]

Now if we wanted to discuss whether the human race is destroying the earth then I would say, yes, undoubtedly

Nah, no way. All the human race is destroying is its own habitat and the biosphere. The earth will be here, intact, way beyond our extinction.
Hoping to see you there....

 

[frytz]

Extinction

Nah, no way. All the human race is destroying is its own habitat and the biosphere. The earth will be here, intact, way beyond our extinction.
Hoping to see you there....

I've been told I am already extinct!

Fred

 

[smh444]

We are changing the earth and the experience, not necessarily ruining the earth and the experience.

On the hikes that I do (mostly in the Catskills) I see few if any people. It's reassuring for me to see at least a few people on the trail - if I want solitude it can be found easily about 200 yrds off any given trail.

As far as viewless peaks - I personally think that every peak should have a view. It's our reward for making the effort to climb them. So for those inclined to cut views...cut away. Cutting 3 or 4 trees will not affect the balance of nature.

If my history serves me correctly, the Catskills were nearly barren 100 years ago. Nature marches on in spite of mankind's intrusions.