Balancing careers and the outdoors.

[una_dogger]

Charlos, try Bard College in Annandale on Hudson.

For me its all about quality of life, and that quality for me centers on living close to nature. I left Johns Hopkins after only a few weeks because I couldn't wrap my brain around a job in a prestigious hospital being more important than what was really important to me.

For me, living my life in a way that is not authentic to what makes me a whole person is not a way to live, in fact, its a slow death.

Just before I turned 40, my Mom told me something along the lines of , "You are a beautiful person with an envious lifestyle -- you don't need to settle down any more than you need to settle for less, you don't need children, you don't need to buy a house".. and that meant the world to me, being the middle child in a family of quote-en-quote "sucessful" kids in the traditional sense of marriage, family, white picket fence in the burbs. (not knocking those who manage to have all of these things and an outdoor life)

For me it goes beyond trading a career choice to be closer to the outdoors, I consider the outdoors the primary choice and the career has to fit the model that supports that. Low to no commute, rural surroundings, the quiet sounds of nature vs the buzz of civilization; they need to be there too.

My life is in constant flux, a constant state of refinement, as much as I take the time to appreciate the beauty around me, I'm also aware that there is more of the world I want to see, and I'm willing to make career choices that will support my adventurous spirit. Trading in a ten year career in ecological reasearch and environmental chemistry for a clinical laboratory science career was one of the boldest moves I think I've made. It allows me, as Maddy said, to chose the hours I work, clock in -- do my work and feel I'm making a positive contribution--then clock out and go enjoy my life. Being in health care allows me to live anywhere.

Great thread.

 

[timmus]

Hiking (and VFTT) helped me get some $$ with commisioning illustrations, what can be better than that !!!!!!! (thanks guys, you know who you are)

Though that was not enough to pay the bills But still, it made me realize how great it can be when you can combine passion and work. That's my ultimate wish.

I find it much harder to combine kids/family with hiking than carreer. A job you can always find, it's just the money you really need after all.

But family ? First of all, you are lucky if you have one. And second of all, how not to regret not being there when the ones you truly love needed you ???

Sorry, this thread is about carreer... Thanks for bringing this up though, it made my grey matter operate a little.

 

[una_dogger]

Hiking (and VFTT)
I find it much harder to combine kids/family with hiking than carreer. A job you can always find, it's just the money you really need after all.

But family ? First of all, you are lucky if you have one. And second of all, how not to regret not being there when the ones you truly love needed you ???

I've often been inspired at how you've managed to hike to the degree that you do with your family resonsibilities. I think, maybe, like most things in life, when they are a little more rare, they become even more dear?

 

[peakbagger]

I got lucky many years ago and managed to find a job and make a good living working in the whites. Things got far less desirable at work and I quit last year to take a new job in VT, unfortunately it didnt work out so I got to take the summer off and figure out where to live next. Well I lucked out and will be working out of my house (which I had kept) in the northern Whites with a new job.

The only down side is I have to get an office setup in my house quickly and the only time I can get help installing drywall is this weekend, so I will miss Sherpa Fest .

One thing for the bachelors in the group, the dating pool gets awfully shallow out here in the sticks!

 

[sapblatt]

As others have said, this is a great thread - it is nice when we can all discuss something and not denigrate into something else.

I am lucky that I have a career that I like and that works for me and allows me a great deal of time off. My old life in retail paid as well, but I worked 6 days a week (both weekend days) and worked any given hour during a 24 hour period.

Now I work four days a week (about 9 1/2 hours a day) and get 20 vacation days, 10 holidays, 8 sick days, 3 personal, and I usually end up with 5-6 comp days and we are often granted 3-4 floating holidays. I figure I work about half of the days in a calendar year.

All of this gives me plenty of time with my family and plenty of time for the outdoors. I try to plan on hiking two times a month - I usually do one Saturday a month and one weekday (it is easier at home if I am not away hiking on a weekday...work and daycare take up a lot of the pressure on the mrs!)

I work in a quasi-public law library and I have a managerial role. I could probably leave and go to a private law firm library and pick up a 15-30 % pay increase - but I would easily lose half my time off and increase my stress 20 fold. I have found a nice home for me, my family and my love of hiking.

 

[DrewKnight]

It's all about how we define success

I think this is a topic that only those of us that love nature would understand... I don't want to sacrifice my personal time for all of the overtime that would be required. The money just isn't worth it to me. You have to do what makes you happy.

In part, I think it comes down to how we define success -- and getting comfortable with the career compromises inherent in deliberately moving off the every-few-years-promotion path. I wrestle constantly with my own demons on this one -- I have spent 20 years in a modestly successful software career, and have moved to what you might euphemistically call "upper middle management".

For me, the next step would be emphatically away from the things that matter the most to me -- time with my family, time with my friends, and time doing the things that I love (which pretty much all revolve around being outside, or recovering from being outside with a good meal and a good beverage). I think by that definition, I am already very successful (my job pays my bills and allows me to play with some impugnity), but being "more successful" in my career probably won't mean being more successful in my life.

 

[jmegillon149]

I find it interesting that this thread has turned into balancing not just work, but lifestyle in general. I feel that many people go through these same compromises with whatever their interests happen to be. Its not just outdoors. This thread could have just as easily been posted on a forum for sports fans, car enthusiasts, people who travel to urban areas, etc.

As an architect, many people find it puzzling that I choose to live in NH, and aspire to move further up into the state eventually when there are more options in a city. My take is, "they still have buildings up north." I wouldn't leave my career, but doing it in an area that is not the focus of the industry is fine for me.

Another thing people are puzzled by is the fact that I made a conscious decision, back when I was 26, to never get married. My free time is important to me, and I have many interests, including hiking. I have found that living alone is the best way to go for that. Getting outside (or to concerts, the gym, wrestling practice, etc.) when I want is that much easier when I don't have the family constrants that many of my friends, co-workers, and family do.

I am the oldest person in the history of my dad's side of the family to have not been married yet, this has been true for 4 years now. At the same time, I have the most education, was the most accomplished athlete, work out the most, hike the most, have one of the steadier jobs, do the most volunteer work and see the most concerts.

To some people marriage and children can take priority, and be more fulfilling/appealing than my hobbies and lifestyle are. Not to me - I realize that my lifestyle does not work for all people, or even most people, but it does for me. I am sure there will be things I miss out on, everyone misses out on things in their life, it works in EVERY direction.

Sacrifice, compromise and balance are the keys to life. Most importantly, is the setting of priorities to best suit you. Certian types of selfishness are not such a bad thing in that regard. If you are only out to please others, you may lose sight of yourself.

Most importantly - Choosing a non-traditional path in life has made it easier for me to be sympathetic and supportive of anyone else who choses a path that is different from the norm, and also different from mine.

 

[MadRiver]

I'm confused, would you please explain your avatar.

 

[DrewKnight]

I'm confused, would you please explain your avatar.

I was confused, too, since he looks darned comfortable surrounded by munchkins. His profile reports that it was his "cousins' first hike", though.

This message brought to you by the International Conspiracy of People Who Have Children to Mess Up the Lives of Those Still Having Unrestricted Fun.

 

[Jason Berard]

Another thing people are puzzled by is the fact that I made a conscious decision, back when I was 26, to never get married. My free time is important to me, and I have many interests, including hiking. I have found that living alone is the best way to go for that. Getting outside (or to concerts, the gym, wrestling practice, etc.) when I want is that much easier when I don't have the family constrants that many of my friends, co-workers, and family do.

I am the oldest person in the history of my dad's side of the family to have not been married yet, this has been true for 4 years now. At the same time, I have the most education, was the most accomplished athlete, work out the most, hike the most, have one of the steadier jobs, do the most volunteer work and see the most concerts.

To some people marriage and children can take priority, and be more fulfilling/appealing than my hobbies and lifestyle are. Not to me - I realize that my lifestyle does not work for all people, or even most people, but it does for me. I am sure there will be things I miss out on, everyone misses out on things in their life, it works in EVERY direction.

Sacrifice, compromise and balance are the keys to life. Most importantly, is the setting of priorities to best suit you. Certian types of selfishness are not such a bad thing in that regard. If you are only out to please others, you may lose sight of yourself.

Most importantly - Choosing a non-traditional path in life has made it easier for me to be sympathetic and supportive of anyone else who choses a path that is different from the norm, and also different from mine.

It sounds like you've given this a lot of thought.....and I agree with everything you said....but....As a married guy with three kids( 6 1/2 yr old, and 4 1/2 yr old twins), I can tell that it is possible to balance a family/ career with outdoor interests. Currently, I hike on average, 2-3 time a month, some with my kids, which is at least as rewarding a doing challenging hikes with peers, just in a different way. We also just adopted a section of the AT to maintain. I happen to work from home, so that is somewhat flexible, which helps.
I'm not trying to dis' anything you said, just add a voice that says you can find ways to combine the different interests/responsibilities in your life if you use a little creativity.

 

[jmegillon149]

It sounds like you've given this a lot of thought.....and I agree with everything you said....but....As a married guy with three kids( 6 1/2 yr old, and 4 1/2 yr old twins), I can tell that it is possible to balance a family/ career with outdoor interests. Currently, I hike on average, 2-3 time a month, some with my kids, which is at least as rewarding a doing challenging hikes with peers, just in a different way. We also just adopted a section of the AT to maintain. I happen to work from home, so that is somewhat flexible, which helps.
I'm not trying to dis' anything you said, just add a voice that says you can find ways to combine the different interests/responsibilities in your life if you use a little creativity.

Never said I hate kids, I like playing with my cousins (the little guys in the pic) a lot. I also like coaching. Its just that I don't want my own kids, ditto for a wife. Every time a friend says "let me check with my wife" regarding anything - it kind of validates me. Don't get me wrong, they seem hapy, but I just don't think that way of life is for me.

Obviously you can balance lots of things, I clearly do - this thread certainly illustrates that. But the fact remains that no one can have everything. We all need to decide what it is that we really want and go for it.

 

[MadRiver]

I’ve never found my wife to be a hindrance to my enjoyment of activities, except of course I cannot date as often as I would like. We both love to hike, ski, and basically enjoy the outdoors. We both did not want children, even though she loves her nieces and nephews. After 24 years of marriage, our arrangement has worked out well.

 

[Artex]

I really admire those that have families and are still able to hike regularly, or for that matter run, bike, ski, whatever, and not just on a casual basis. It's a balancing act and requires a lot of coordination, but it's possible even for the hardest of the hardcore (I know a few). Those guys and gals have my respect.

 

[Mongoose]

One thing I've noticed in the people who make big salaries, like 6 figure salaries, is they live a Super Size-It life. Where most people buy a Toyota, they buy a Lexus. Where most people buy a 2 bedroom house, they buy a 4 bedroom, and so on. I know people that hire house cleaners because they don't have the time to do it themselves. It seems odd spending extra time working to pay for something you don't have the time to do yourself.

Clearly this doesn't go for everyone with lots of money but many of the people I've met do it. It's like they compensate for their lack of time by improving everyday things they use while working, being around the house, etc. I'll take my time over a better salary with a nice easy 40 hour a week job...

 

[tallguinness]

Interesting Topic

Good topic.

I've become talented at the balancing act of integrating family and, less importantly, work, into my outdoorsman lifestyle.

The family part is cake...it's the work part that seems to consume 9-11 hours every weekday during peak hiking times. Let's face it...weekdays rock...work sucks. Despite career success, I still subscribe to a minimalist lifestyle which helps. The more you own, the more that owns you. Additionally, I never accept a job that requires over 5% travel.

 

[Jasper]

A good and timely topic

While this thread was not directed to me, I am wrestling with this subject now. After moving to this country 20 years ago, raising 4 children and doing the corporate thing to the max, I am taking a 'package' at the end of September. While I am getting on, I am still in good health and condition.

It is now time to get more balance in my life, and get out hiking more then I have been.

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread. You never know where your comments and this journey takes will take me.

 

[hikingfish]

This situation probably affects a lot of us members at VFTT, especially if you consider the fact that this thread has been viewed almost as many times as the posting rules thread

Fish

 

[alpinista]

Mongoose: I'm so happy to hear that you're looking to make some changes in your life to allow you more time to head into the mountains. I know how important that is for you _ and always wondered if you still were getting out there but simply weren't posting trip reports. Your photographs capture the intensity and wonder and beauty of the mountains, so I look forward to seeing more of those as you get out more.

That said, as much as I love hiking and backpacking, as much as hiking became a turning point in my life, my career is another passion of mine. I have always felt truly blessed at having been able to make a living _ and a decent one _ doing something I enjoy, something that has always felt like a calling to me: the news. Yes, I could work for a small newspaper somewhere but let me be frank: The newspaper industry is dying, jobs are scarce, and jobs in small towns pay so little. I couldn't afford the gear (or at least the gear that I like). And the news would be strictly local. I am someone who needs to be tested and challenged intellectually _ and that challenge must constantly increase _ or I get bored. And when I'm bored, believe me, you don't want to be around me. I get ornery!

So...that's what led me earlier this year to move to New York City. Yes, I definitely miss the mountains and I still haven't gotten out for a hike this year except for New Year's Day, but it is the sacrifice that I feel I need to make for now. The mountains will indeed always be there.

And in the interim, I try to live vicariously through all of your trip reports _ so write 'em long, write 'em often _ and make sure to take lots of photographs!

Oh, and I'm hoping to finally get up to the Catskills this upcoming weekend. I just need to find where I put all that gear ...

 

[Sugarloafer]

Wow. This is one of the best threads I have ever read!

I made a decision a long time ago to make sure that I had a career that would provide for my family and me. I have been very fortunate to have been employeed at a great company for over 19 years.

Still, I occasionally wonder if I should have chosen a line of work that fit my passion for the outdoors, as well as a fondness for the somewhat slower pace of a more rural life. Working in downtown Boston can definitely drain me. I overcome that by constantly reminding myself that this is that path that I have chosen and that life is still pretty damn good.

Mongoose, my only advice to you is: if you decide to make the big change, do it NOW, so that you don't lock yourself into something you aren't change down the road.

Marty

I've struggled with this same issue on many occasions and came to the same decision you did. I own a place at Sugarloaf and still get to ski 50 to 60 days a year. I hike all I want and go sea kayaking, mountain biking and road cycling right out of my house on the North Shore of Boston. I could use a shorter drive to Sugarloaf, but at the end of the day life ain't so bad. I work for a very good company, have a pretty flexible schedule and my commute is about 35 minutes. No job ever pays enough, but by Greater Boston standards, my situation could be a lot worse. For me, the lock in time (geographically) came when my kids were born. The cost of raising and educating kids is daunting, making it very difficult to just pick up stakes, take a huge pay cut and move so you can pursue your hobbies more conveniently. We've always made it our priority to expose our kids to as many of life's experiences as possible, so they can make their own decisions and develop their own passions. Boston has so much to offer educationally and culturally that staying here was kind of a no-brainer.

 

[yardsale]

Great thread. Has anyone attempted, accomplished a jobshare situation, splitting a 40 hour job between two people such that each is eligible for benefits at the 20 hour level? The benefits issue would really be a key for me in our effort to become downwardly mobile to free up more playtime.