Berlin NH stacks

[bikehikeskifish]

There were many happy years that they had, and with the economy the way it is now, it appears that my generation might be one of the first ones in a while that might never experience the economic prosperity and early retirement options that generations before us have experienced.

Your grandparents may have (mine did) lived through the great depression. They understood, and probably taught your parents (they taught mine) how to save for the future. Two and three generations ago, you didn't have $200-$2000 "throwaway" devices (cell phones, computers, iPods, digital cameras.) You didn't have SUVs. Far fewer people drove BMWs and MBs. Every square inch of our existence wasn't a corporate billboard. A huge part of the current lack of prosperity is our self-imposed spending habits.

You can retired early if you make it your goal.

---sorry for being off-topic, but this thread is more about the economy of the region than hiking itself---

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

As for my thoughts of the event, I will gladly give it to the VFTT crowd in person. I worked there for 18 years and was the last engineer that worked on the pulp mill.

Unlike Sherpa, I didnt grow up in Berlin and I moved their voluntarilly. There are actually quite a lot of us who moved from away, and have found a way to make a living and a home. We dont figure prominantly in the local and national media as we dont fit the stereotype of a dying mill town.

As for the future, Berlin was stuck in the past prior to the demo with the "mill" dominating the landscape, the politics and the populations mind. Granted the remaining boiler and its associated stack and equipment still will dominate the landscape, but on a far less obtrusive scale. The planned redevelopment of the boiler into a "green" power plant burning low grade wood will restore a lot of the logging jobs and possibly spin off some subsidiary development. Given the sites industrial past, it would be difficult to see the high end residential development envisioned by some, but then again look at Lincoln. The whitewater down the gorge adjacent to the mill is unlike any in the region, ripe for recreational runs (once the many man made hazards are cleared out). Granted there are a lot of run down triple decker apartments in some neighborhoods, but other neighborhoods contain architectural gems. (for fans of John Calvin Stevens, how about one of his designs for less that $100K). The state and local governments have teemed up and started to crack down on absentee landlords and the expected hgih demand for apartments in the area for the next few years, will make it pay for landlords to upgrade their units.

For those who want to see a different Berlin, take a ride up Cates Hill sometimes and check out the views and the housing. Its not hard to find, just take Rt 16 north and look for a sign up past the Dairy Bar. The newer developments tended to be built out of site of downtown and the mill so they are not noticable to the average person driving through town.

One of the new futures, like it or not, is the federal prison being constructed. Its not like the area isnt used to it, there was already a state prison that was built several years ago and despite the dire warnings predicted for the area, it has been a net positive. I would expect that few folks from away that think they know Berlin even have an idea where it is.

BTW, there still is a "mill" in Gorham and in the last few years, it has had the largest number of employees of the mills in Berlin and Gorham.

Time to get off the soapbox

 

[Mad Townie]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone

No need for apologies. You were making a valid point, one that should be heard along with the others here. I, for one, didn't see any attempt at causing offense, only a point to which I wished to respond by adding information.

It's called "having a reasonable discussion."

 

[SherpaKroto]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean to...KDT

Like Townie, I never took any offense (never crossed my mind, actually), so no apologies necessary.

One thing I've learned about folks from Paper Mill towns. Whne you ask them where they are from their reply is always something like this "I live in <current home>, but I grew up in <Berlin/Rumford/Jay, etc>". While some people are ashamed of where they came from, most of us are very proud of our birthplaces. Yup, I'm from Berlin, and always will be.

 

[jmegillon149]

I sort of posted without thinking too much on the subject. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean to. I just think that some things, well, their time has come. If it were up to me, there would be no Auto Road, no Cog, no roads through any notch... I realize it is unrealistic and not many would share my views. Of course those stacks provided for many families, it's just how things are, and I'm sure I used the paper they produced, so please forgive my fantasy of the Whites returning to a pristine wilderness.

KDT

the returning to a "pristine winderness" thing is interesting. I agree that lots of the smog is bad. Roads through notches - not sure, as they provide access, so that people can experience that wilderness. The cog and auto road can go. Ski lifts - admittedly, I like them.

As far as developed towns with legit industry on the edges of the Whites, I selfishly wish there were more. With Berlin fading, there isn't much. I'd love to be able to live and work in the Whites. The 2 hour drive I endure most weekends is taxing, expensive, and not the most eco-friendly thing to do. If I could legitimately find a job as an architect in a place like Gorham, Conway or Plymouth - it would be ideal for my lifestyle.

It is actually my long term goal to open a small firm "up there." I don't want to overdevelop it or anything, but if I can build up there, and do so in a smart, unobtrusive manner - it would be my dream job. That way I would not only be living where I play, but contributing to it in more ways than one.

 

[king tut]

Your grandparents may have (mine did) lived through the great depression. They understood, and probably taught your parents (they taught mine) how to save for the future. Two and three generations ago, you didn't have $200-$2000 "throwaway" devices (cell phones, computers, iPods, digital cameras.) You didn't have SUVs. Far fewer people drove BMWs and MBs. Every square inch of our existence wasn't a corporate billboard. A huge part of the current lack of prosperity is our self-imposed spending habits.

You can retired early if you make it your goal.

---sorry for being off-topic, but this thread is more about the economy of the region than hiking itself---

Tim

Those are all valid points, but I think your point of reference is a lot different than mine. Myself and my friends are all in their 20's and graduated college right after the economy and jobs took a turn for the worse right after 9/11. Most of them as well as me will probably not be able to afford to buy our first house until we are into our 30's, and the cost of buying a new home is now probably right around 6x or 7x the average annual salary, where as when my parents bought their first house it was closer to about 3x or 4x the annual salary of one of them, and they did not graduate with about 10 years of loans from college to pay off. It's just a radically different world than it was maybe even 10 years or so ago. I know that with the cost of gas, I really plan ahead and take limited trips out hiking places far away from home because it costs so much to fill up the tank of my little car. I make decent money and live pretty frugally, but I see a lot of my friends who have busted their butts to get through school and they will be poor for quite a long time into the future. While some younger people may buy stupid electronics and wasteful items, a lot of the people I know worked several jobs to get through college and then came out on the other side with at least 10-15 years of loans to pay off before they can think about starting a family and buying a house. Not that this is a sob story, but it all relates to the fact that the world's population is growing while it's resources are shrinking. Supply and demand. Things become more expensive as their supply decreases and demand increases. So these posts have nothing to do with hiking, just the world changing. I'll try to just post hiking stuff now, sorry if this is a bit off topic.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Those are all valid points, but I think your point of reference is a lot different than mine. Myself and my friends are all in their 20's and graduated college right after the economy and jobs took a turn for the worse right after 9/11. Most of them as well as me will probably not be able to afford to buy our first house until we are into our 30's, and the cost of buying a new home is now probably right around 6x or 7x the average annual salary, where as when my parents bought their first house it was closer to about 3x or 4x the annual salary of one of them, and they did not graduate with about 10 years of loans from college to pay off. It's just a radically different world than it was maybe even 10 years or so ago. I know that with the cost of gas, I really plan ahead and take limited trips out hiking places far away from home because it costs so much to fill up the tank of my little car. I make decent money and live pretty frugally, but I see a lot of my friends who have busted their butts to get through school and they will be poor for quite a long time into the future. While some younger people may buy stupid electronics and wasteful items, a lot of the people I know worked several jobs to get through college and then came out on the other side with at least 10-15 years of loans to pay off before they can think about starting a family and buying a house. Not that this is a sob story, but it all relates to the fact that the world's population is growing while it's resources are shrinking. Supply and demand. Things become more expensive as their supply decreases and demand increases. So these posts have nothing to do with hiking, just the world changing. I'll try to just post hiking stuff now, sorry if this is a bit off topic.

No need to apologize - you make excellent points. Frankly, I have no idea how you and your generation, plus those that follow, are going to pay off those college loans, buy a house, raise a family ... etc, etc. I thought I had it rough when I graduated in 1970 and it took me several years to pay off my loans, but my loans were proportionally much less than those of the average grad today.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

All good points. The fact remains, if you are diligent and pay yourself first (savings, 401k, 529 for your kids), buy a minimal house rather than a McMansion, drive a practical, efficient car, use coupons, buy stuff on eBay, ... you CAN get ahead of the curve. It's all about priorities. Pick up any copy of Money Magazine and you can read about success stories. One thing most of these self-made people have in common is you'd never know it from looking at them.

Thanks, Tut for making feel old. Thanks, Kevin, for making me feel young

Tim

 

[Tim Seaver]

Farewell, Stacks

Berlin From Rogers Ledge

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Really neat shot! Thanks, Tim.

 

[TDawg]

This is kind of an odd thread to read because I drove through Berlin for the first time ever that Saturday afternoon, on the way to the unknown pond trailhead. I had no idea the stacks were to come down that day. I drove north on 16 to 110 and thats what I saw of Berlin for the first time, only one real stack that I can remember (which I assume is the boiler someone spoke of?). I said to my dad something like, "This town looks sad." It seemed nobody was really out and about and it seemed something wasn't right, 3 out of ten houses seemed to be for sale. I hope things recover there.

 

[Puck]

Great shot Tim.

I will send a link to my mother. She was born in Berlin. My grandfather lived out his years there.

 

[jrichard]

The personal finance comments for king tut here are good, and I'd like to add my own:

1) Pick up a copy of Personal Finance for Dummies, which basically formalizes the good advice you've gotten here.

2) Hope that you don't get blind-sided by something catastrophic that will wipe you out (sickness, divorce, etc...).

GenX and GenY are reaping some material benefits. But I feel King Tut's pain when I look down the road to see if I can retire early to hike some of the long trails (AT, JMT, LT, etc...) while my knees still work. Also frustrating is that in my experience, our generations get a fraction of the down time the boomers did, and then we are subtly encouraged not to take it, but to work overtime instead. Sigh. But at least I'm working.

That's why I think the shorter hikes are going to be important for our generations - I really like the Cohos Trail and the Monadnock-Sunapee Greenway. Peak bagging has it's virtues too.

[Anyway, I actually hit reply here to say that Tim's picture is gorgeous. Thanks Tim!]