Best Cities To Work And Live For Hiking

[roadtripper]

It's getting expensive, but I personally think St. George Utah is the best base camp in the USA. It's only a few hours to places like the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Zion National Park, Grand Staircase-Escalante (my favorite place on the planet), skiing in northern Utah, Capitol Reef, Kanab, Bryce Canyon, Death Valley, Vermillion Cliffs National Monument, etc. There is also fantastic hiking within 30 minutes of the city, including Snow Canyon, Dixie National Forest, and lots of other places too. Tons of awesome bike trails and a great food scene too. 125,000 people in metro area and still growing at 3-5% rate.

 

[Raven]

Berlin, NH is waiting to become the next outdoor mecca. Everything PB has said about it. Climbing routes on side streets, access to the best hiking in the northeast. Skiing everywhere, dog sledding, a couple hours to the ocean, three hours ish to Boston, they have rivers that are not being fully utilized, growing tourism industry south of the notches still, and I see duplexes for cheap. I would seriously consider a two family home there and rent to locals. Balsams may provide some of that push you need. NC is not a bad drive most days. Jobs are the issue of course but you won't find a cheaper place to live in the northeast. At some point soon, this changes. Were I to be in your situation, I'd seriously look there.

 

[DayTrip]

IMO it’s a whole lot easier to do it in your 20’s and scratch your way up than to wait until mid life.

That is a painful truth. I've hiked all my life but it was only about 6 years ago that it really hit me that this is what I want to do with my free time. Always kick myself for not setting off that spark earlier in life. But I guess you don't know until you know.

 

[DayTrip]

Berlin, NH is waiting to become the next outdoor mecca. Everything PB has said about it. Climbing routes on side streets, access to the best hiking in the northeast. Skiing everywhere, dog sledding, a couple hours to the ocean, three hours ish to Boston, they have rivers that are not being fully utilized, growing tourism industry south of the notches still, and I see duplexes for cheap. I would seriously consider a two family home there and rent to locals. Balsams may provide some of that push you need. NC is not a bad drive most days. Jobs are the issue of course but you won't find a cheaper place to live in the northeast. At some point soon, this changes. Were I to be in your situation, I'd seriously look there.

It's funny you mention that. I have an uncle who is seriously looking into Berlin. He's had a small chalet in Center Conway since the mid 80's and he's always talking about how much more you get for your money in Berlin right now (although relative to Conway you could probably say that for just about everywhere). Maybe he'll get an apartment building and I'll just have to move in as an on-site building manager.

 

[peakbagger]

The Berlin Gorham area has definitely had it ups and downs. I expect the worse days are over but I don't represent its as a get rich quick opportunity. There are some nice neighborhoods but there are some neighborhoods particularly on the east side southeast of the old pulp mill that are still quite rough. There is cheap housing in town and that does draw low income folks so the city is definitely not gentrified. About 30 years ago out of state investors could buy a lot of run down apartments for cheap and they did. The population was declining and the buildings they were buying were built in the days of cheap heat. Few made money and as the buildings got unlivable or fires occurred the owner would bail for the insurance. There were a lot of abandoned buildings spread around town plus the long range plan to relocate Rt110 kept several blocks of the city up in the air as building owners didn't want to invest as the project might tear down the house. Berlin also inspect apartments more aggressively and that makes running a tenement harder. Berlin has been using federal and state funding to tear down derelict buildings. Berlin has just about finished a rebuild of RT 16 north of town and they got extra funding to add to the local walkway network in town. The state and federal prison staffs have stabilized the city and the local services. There is a large commercial greenhouse (2- 10 acre buildings) breaking ground in April and the local industrial park is effectively out of space. The problem is that compared to the Pulp and Paper mills at their peak, the jobs don't pay as well and the work is non union, those used to the well paying jobs for life with a high school diploma, just didn't make the transition well. Those who didn't work at the mill don't have these biases. As I have noted in the past the local realtors are quite astute on potential buyers, they will steer out of town buyers to higher end homes and not even show them the lower cost homes. One of the other projects in the area over recent years is a large firm bought blocks of apartment buildings, and with state subsidies gutted them built them into energy efficient apartments. They are in demand but are available on occasion so someone interested in getting to know the area does have rental options. Anyone just driving into town and trying to find the right home without getting to know the area is definitely going to be taking a risk.

The Balsams development if it goes is definitely a big unknown. The only other area with limited population is Colebrook NH which lacks housing. It is closer to the Balsams. Colebrook will definitely get a bump out of it. The trade off is Colebrook is an extra hour north on far more rural roads and although there is limited trail network in the area its definitely on the outer fringes of the whites.

 

[egilbe]

One of my co-workers is from Berlin. He was saying that a relative of his was selling a 3 bedroom house with 5 acres for $45k and couldn't sell it. Another co-worker argued with him about the price, stating no way it could be so cheap. Being from coastal Maine, he was used to 1/2 acre house lots going for $100k+. He looked it up, now he's thinking of retiring up there because the housing is cheaper, but he likes fishing for stripers, doesn't hunt or like shoveling snow and hates Winter. He decided Berlin wasn't for him.

 

[Raven]

I can see Berlin as a good long range investment or option for someone who can find work and wants to live in the area. Definitely not the get rich quick town, I agree. 20-30 years from now though, a smart buy today might look quite good there. Or not....funny thing, real estate.

 

[peakbagger]

So, does AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) factor in folks best places to live and work? I figure most folks reading VFTT probably have a 20 to 40 year timeline and every indication is AGW is going to be a far more significant factor in that timespan. Probably not a good choice to buy low lying waterfront and even riverfront is pushing it due to increased chances of 100 year floods. I have seen guesses that Northern New England turns more Virginia like but weather pattern swings will be more severe so more bounces between arctic blasts, thaws and heavy rain events will happen more often. Most indications are the western states are in for significant decades long droughts.

 

[DayTrip]

a 3 bedroom house with 5 acres for $45k and couldn't sell it..

WOW. Those are real estate values that I am not familiar with down here in Southern NE. You can't get one acre lots for that price in most towns down here, never mind with any kind of livable structure on it. That certainly has my attention.

 

[peakbagger]

Feel free to peruse the REMax Berlin NH site. Yes houses do sell down in that range but usually they are far smaller city lots, 100 by 100 or less (sometimes 50 by 75). Usually estate sales where the parents have passed away and the family moved away long ago and want to get rid of them quick. They are usually small floorplan, 100 years old and need significant updating. Plan on energy upgrades and new heating systems, kitchen and bath upgrades and asbestos and lead paint mitigation. These issues aren't special to Berlin NH, its just comes with older housing stock. Unless you are willing to DIY and have the skills, the cost to do upgrades will load down the house value so it becomes difficult to flip so you are in it for the long run. Local property taxes are high and water and sewer add to the costs. Generally the lots with acreage go for higher prices or need significantly more work. Do note that the real estate listings are asking price, quite a few properties sell for below asking price. The realtors frequently discourage low offers as their commissions are tied to selling price but frequently the owner has been waiting to sell for quite awhile and just wants to be done with it.

There is newer housing stock in the outlying parts of the city but the prices go up considerably.

 

[DayTrip]

Feel free to peruse the REMax Berlin NH site. Yes houses do sell down in that range but usually they are far smaller city lots, 100 by 100 or less (sometimes 50 by 75). Usually estate sales where the parents have passed away and the family moved away long ago and want to get rid of them quick. They are usually small floorplan, 100 years old and need significant updating. Plan on energy upgrades and new heating systems, kitchen and bath upgrades and asbestos and lead paint mitigation. These issues aren't special to Berlin NH, its just comes with older housing stock. Unless you are willing to DIY and have the skills, the cost to do upgrades will load down the house value so it becomes difficult to flip so you are in it for the long run. Local property taxes are high and water and sewer add to the costs. Generally the lots with acreage go for higher prices or need significantly more work. Do note that the real estate listings are asking price, quite a few properties sell for below asking price. The realtors frequently discourage low offers as their commissions are tied to selling price but frequently the owner has been waiting to sell for quite awhile and just wants to be done with it.

There is newer housing stock in the outlying parts of the city but the prices go up considerably.

If I did actually buy something it would be for the long haul and preferably with some sort of earning capacity (multifamily I could live in or a house I could rent if I were not there full time). Between my wife and I we have a pretty good base of skills relative to remodeling. My father was a licensed plumber and I helped him for many years and my wife and I have 10+ years with home improvement retailers. My wife is pretty good at just about every form of interior remodeling (flooring, wall paper, blinds, interior design, etc) and we have family members in various trades. A fixer upper could certainly work.....providing the time was available. Our current house has plenty of projects in need of doing and they're all fall under our "umbrella" of skills yet they haven't been done in years. Something always seems to come up (uh like trips to Vegas )

 

[Raven]

Yes -- that has factored significantly into where we've decided to relocate, when we do. It will be a consideration along with resources for recreation (one of the primary reasons for the OP to start this thread), property prices, proximity to services, and also an area's attitude toward conservation and land use.

Chances are I will land permanently north of the notches at retirement, a hefty 2.5 hours north. I'm happy to have a small lot at about 1200' that should stay dry when the waters rise enough. I'll camp there. My home is not much above sea level. I'll sell. The one saving grace for ocean front property is that there are enough people who think climate change is a myth there will be plenty of eager buyers.

Buy on a hill. Learn to swim.

 

[TJsName]

Chances are I will land permanently north of the notches at retirement, a hefty 2.5 hours north. I'm happy to have a small lot at about 1200' that should stay dry when the waters rise enough. I'll camp there. My home is not much above sea level. I'll sell. The one saving grace for ocean front property is that there are enough people who think climate change is a myth there will be plenty of eager buyers.

Buy on a hill. Learn to swim.

Apparently Miami real estate agents are some of the strongest deniers.

 

[egilbe]

Living on the coast, I've seen first hand the erosion and the steps taken to preserve multi-million dollar camps on the beach.

 

[Daniel Eagan]

It's getting expensive, but I personally think St. George Utah is the best base camp in the USA. It's only a few hours to places like the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Zion National Park, Grand Staircase-Escalante (my favorite place on the planet), skiing in northern Utah, Capitol Reef, Kanab, Bryce Canyon, Death Valley, Vermillion Cliffs National Monument, etc. There is also fantastic hiking within 30 minutes of the city, including Snow Canyon, Dixie National Forest, and lots of other places too. Tons of awesome bike trails and a great food scene too. 125,000 people in metro area and still growing at 3-5% rate.

Only got to spend a few hours in St. George last summer. It was a very pretty town, manageable size. What I wonder about is the weather. Does it get too hot in the summer? What are winters like?

And I found the strong religious atmosphere a little weird.

 

[jniehof]

Only got to spend a few hours in St. George last summer. It was a very pretty town, manageable size. What I wonder about is the weather. Does it get too hot in the summer? What are winters like?

Ask and ye shall...