Bindings on MSR EVO Snowshoes

[iAmKrzys]

I got MSR EVO snowshoes for my daughter and they come with 3 rubber straps & buckle type locks. Question for anyone who uses these types of bindings - how do you usually lock them? Do you keep rear strap fixed (pre-adjusted to boot size) and you slide your foot back into the binding & then fasten the front straps? Or do you work with them in a different way?

For myself I have Tubbs Wilderness snowshoes that come with ratchet strap in front so I keep the rear strap fixed and once I slide my boot in place I simply push the strap tongue into the ratchet that usually is pretty quick. It seems with MSR EVOs one needs to do a bit more work and I wonder about the best way to make this fast.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I lock the heel of the MSRs myself, using a pan head bolt and nut right behind the clip. You can use a cable tie as well...

Tim

 

[JoshandBaron]

I also keep the heel set on the current/older model Posilock/Duofit-type bindings. They are definitely a little more work than the Tubbs systems but I feel the benefits of the system outweigh the extra few seconds. FWIW, the next iteration of the Posilock system will be faster. You also won't have to buy screws or cable ties to keep things under control.

 

[iAmKrzys]

Thanks for your comments - I will probably do something along the lines you suggest, but perhaps I will try these snowshoes myself first. The sales guy at REI suggested that I get extensions for them and that should work for me. Now, I just need some snow near home!

 

[peakbagger]

I was out hiking with someone who had a pair of MSR snowshoes with Posilock bindings yesterday. The snowshoes were bought last year and had only used them a few times. before he had a binding fail. The front strap is ratcheted with a split red plastic tab on either side of the strap. Both sides of the tab have to be depressed to release the strap. One of the halves of the tab snapped off. He called MSR and he claimed he has some pushback from MSR that is wasnt a material failure. Eventually they sent him one of the current model redesigned bindings that looks more robust and tried to charge him for it. We used the snowshoes all day in ideal conditions, not icy or rocky. When he got back to the trailhead he discovered that the same tab was broken off on the remaining old binding. The bindings dont fail when the tab breaks off, they just will not release. Since I didn't own them I didn't get a good look but it sure looks as like this double tab arrangement is weak point to look out for. I searched around a bit on the web and have not seen any reports of failures.

Reminds me of the old Denali series of snowshoes that took several years of yearly fixes and upgrades to finally end up with a durable design.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I was out hiking with someone who had a pair of MSR snowshoes with Posilock bindings yesterday. The snowshoes were bought last year and had only used them a few times. before he had a binding fail. The front strap is ratcheted with a split red plastic tab on either side of the strap. Both sides of the tab have to be depressed to release the strap. One of the halves of the tab snapped off. He called MSR and he claimed he has some pushback from MSR that is wasnt a material failure. Eventually they sent him one of the current model redesigned bindings that looks more robust and tried to charge him for it. We used the snowshoes all day in ideal conditions, not icy or rocky. When he got back to the trailhead he discovered that the same tab was broken off on the remaining old binding. The bindings dont fail when the tab breaks off, they just will not release. Since I didn't own them I didn't get a good look but it sure looks as like this double tab arrangement is weak point to look out for. I searched around a bit on the web and have not seen any reports of failures.

Reminds me of the old Denali series of snowshoes that took several years of yearly fixes and upgrades to finally end up with a durable design.

Those sound like the HyperLink bindings. The posilocks don't have any ratchets on them.

Also, note that all Ascent model snowshoes are on closeout right now. If you're happy with the current Posilocks you might want to buy now before things change.

 

[B the Hiker]

If I'm using my leather boots, I find the stakes are not high. I still have Koflachs, and the location of the tip of the plastic boot relative to the pivot point at the end of the snowshoe is important. I like to have them relatively far forward.

So if I'm in plastic boots, I usually have the rear strap already set.


Brian

 

[peakbagger]

I was using my MSR Denali Ascents the other day and one minute I had two snowshoes and the next I had one snowshoe and one with a binding separated from the snowshoe. There was no trace of the pivot pins. I checked the frame and binding and no damage on either set of holes. I am unsure what failed. I had an official MSR repair kit so I opened it up and pulled out a set of pivots. I then installed them and came to conclusion that installing one in the winter in the woods would be darn close to impossible. The snap rings are very small and have a lot of tension in them. I used a thin knife blade to pry the coils apart to get it to slip on the pivot pin. It took multiple tries and a few launched springs across the room to get them on. The other conclusion is most of the hardware in the kit does not seem to line up with the snowshoe. I know have two functioning snowshoes. I called MSR and they sent me 4 new pins. I also have a pair of Lightning Ascents with the same binding system.

Since I have two snowshoes with the same binding system I would like to have some parts on hand rather than waiting for the factory to send them. I was searching on Ebay and found a military surplus vendor selling used take off bindings. They seem to sell a lot of them. $3.59 (plus $10 shipping) gets a binding complete with claw, ascender bar and pivot pins. For me having parts at home and in stock is a plus while others are probably willing to wait for the free option.

Not sure what to do about the rings for the pivot for a field repair but suggest anyone attempting it should loop a string through it before attempting it so when it inevitably is launched into the air that it may be recovered.

 

[TomK]

Those are just clevis pins, right? Why not carry a few split style cotter pins that will fit through the hole in the clevis pin? Or even a finish nail or brad that you can push through the clevis pin hole and bend both sides to keep it in place? Got to be easier in the field than fussing with that split ring. Should at least get you home where you can fix at your leisure if you don't trust the repair to be durable...

Or even an appropriate sized bolt with a nylock nut ought to do the job and be easier to install in the field...

TomK

 

[peakbagger]

Unfortunately its not a standard clevis pin. Looks like a custom version made for MSR. The head relative to the shaft diameter is not much bigger than the shaft. A bolt may work temporary but in that size its going to be fully threaded. Thread on a pivot point is a bad thing as its going to chew up the holes that the pivots ride on. There is not a lot of "meat" on the pivot plates so not good to screw up the holes. Might get me home but may damage the entire snowshoe. The ring is a smaller diameter than the ones I have seen. A standard split pin will not fit in the space given.

 

[TomK]

Unfortunately its not a standard clevis pin. Looks like a custom version made for MSR. The head relative to the shaft diameter is not much bigger than the shaft. A bolt may work temporary but in that size its going to be fully threaded. Thread on a pivot point is a bad thing as its going to chew up the holes that the pivots ride on. There is not a lot of "meat" on the pivot plates so not good to screw up the holes. Might get me home but may damage the entire snowshoe. The ring is a smaller diameter than the ones I have seen. A standard split pin will not fit in the space given.

Good point about a threaded bolt chewing up the pivot plate and/or bracket.

The rest of your post made me think that it might not be the worst idea in the world for my first time doing this repair to not be in the woods with cold fingers, so I brought a shoe onto the kitchen table, fished my ditty bag out of the pack and tried to do the repair with what I had in the bag. When I got the shoes and looked at the pins, I just eyeballed the size of the pin and threw into my bag a pin that I figured would fit. Turned out, it *did* fit fine, albeit a bit longer than I'd prefer, but I still think it would work, and it didn't take long to do.

But I looked at the hole in the original pin, and I'm still convinced that a cotter pin will work fine, and might be the most durable way to secure the end of the clevis pin. I used a paper clip, probably not the most stout material, but it went on easy as pie. I also found a small nail, and had no problem using it to secure the end of the clevis pin. Just would use the needle nose pliers on my Leatherman tool to bend the end of the nail to keep it from slipping out. Maybe a safety pin might do the job in a pinch.

Here is a photo showing the original pin on the right, my repaired pin with a paper clip on the left, and in the middle of the picture, below the bracket, is the original pin with a nail through the hole in the pin (but not bent around)



But whatever you figure to use, try it at home first to make sure it will serve...

Was wondering about the failure mode though. Seems like the clevis pin, bracket, and pivot plate are all pretty stout, so is the weak point the split ring that secures the end of the clevis pin? The only thing I could think of is something somehow latching onto the ring and pulling it apart, the clevis pin falls out, and the binding comes loose. Do both pins tend to come loose and the whole pivot plate seperates from the bracket? I'd think that one would fail at a time, rather than both... Curious to hear from folks that had failures what the failure mode was...

TomK

 

[peakbagger]

Cool, I guess its time for a hardware store run. I dont stock a lot of inventory in that size. In my case one minute I was walking with 2 snowshoes and the next I had one. No signs of distortion or rough spots. The washer should keep the pin in shear so the obvious weak point would be the split ring. My guess is that the stock ring was designed to minimize surface area where it might get caught on things. The only guess to improve the design would be to put a blob of silicone caulking to fill up the gap of the split ring to reduce the potential for snagging. The other thing that popped in my mind is replace the pins with one rod that goes through both pins across the binding and end up with a hybrid of the older pivot rod design used successfully for years.

I used Tubbs Katahdins for 20 years, They are still usable but dont have ascenders and the heel claws is worn down to knubs. I believe they were a knock off of the original Sherpa patent and came on the market months after the Sherpa patents ran out. Sherpa owned the backcountry snowshoe market prior to that for a pivoting binding. I think the Tubbs were so close to the Sherpa design that folks were installing the Tubbs TD91 bindings on Sherpas. The pivot design consisted of a larger diameter steel rod that ran from frame rail to frame rail. On the Tubb's there was a loop on either end that was attached to the frame with a nylon strap that was riveted in place. Prior to the loops being formed, there was a nylon tube slid over the rod. The binding had a formed groove that clamped over the nylon tube. IMHO it was superior design once Tubbs worked through a materials issue in the first production run. I got 20 years off of them of hiking in the whites including winter 4KS. There are plenty of Sherpas that lasted as long and for years they were the staple of the rental stores and AMC winter school. Unless New Hampshire F&G has changed recently, they were still using them for rescues as of 4 or 5 years ago despite being out of production for over 20 years. (Note IRL in Canada still make the near identical design for industrial use albeit at a steep price). IMHO its superior pivot design to the MSR pivot pins as there is no metal to metal contact. The only failure point would be the attachment of the loop to the frame which can be field fixed with tiewraps or copper wire. Still a PITA but far more glove friendly.

MSR has been using the pivot pin design since they came out with the "radical" injection molded snowshoe. It took several years of annual upgrades to deal with design flaws but they eventually came up with a beefy design. Not sure why they went with the pins compared to the Tubbs and prior Sherpa binding but it may have been patentable feature to keep knock offs at bay. Alternatively it just may cost less. I do object that MSR is unwilling to sell bindings only so the Paragon binding could be used to upgrade older snowshoes but figure its marketing ploy of maybe its that they want to let the hiking public discover flaws in the new design. At least MSR does support their product well when it does break and is based in the US with at least some production in the states (the Denali's production at one point shifted to Ireland).

 

[briarpatch]

I have carried a cotter pin to use instead of the MSR supplied ring. But have been concerned that it would work itself off. Found this spring clip in a hardware store and have more comfort it will remain on. I also was able to find bolt and nut that would work.

 

[peakbagger]

Nice option.

Looking at the design of the split rings I notice that the ring naturally rotates around always landing at the point where the ring is only one wire diameter. That is less than optimal, my preference would be for the ring to ride on the doubled up section of the ring. Another reason to put a gob of RTV on the ring ?

 

[TomK]

I wouldn't use the spring style cotter pin - too easy to get snagged on something and yanked off.

I finally was able to find the split style of cotter pin I was thinking of. Bottom right before bending either side, center with one side bent over. Also, top left, I made my own split ring from some steel wire...




TomK