I'm going to be tenting in single digit temps Friday night and would like to boil water with my MSR pocket rocket stove; the only stove I have. It's not critical to have hot food but would surely be nice. I realize this stove is not ideal in cold temps even though the canister says "all season fuel blend". I tried it out last night at home with 10F temp and, after 10 minutes, the water hadn't boiled though was pretty hot. I plan to put the canister under my jacket to warm it and I'm fashioning a heat shield out of flashing. Not sure of the best "design" for a tallish heat shield. Any helpful tips about what I can do to maximize heat output from this stove?
boiling water in winter with canister stove
- Thread starter BethW
- Start date
Help Support vftt.org:
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
What you need is homebrew hack to heat your cannister. Its referred to as Moulder Strip (named after the guy who publicized his version). Its not commercially available due to its simplicity and potential liability if used in non winter conditions. Here are the details
https://backpackinglight.com/forums...t-to-the-test-butane-canister-use-at-21f-29c/
I assume you are aware that different cannisters have different blends of fuel that respond differently to temps. The red MSRs seem to be the pick for cold temps. My and others experiences are that the cold weather performance varies significantly with the amount of fuel in the cannister. On a extended section hike I was trying to stretch cannister life and it was quite apparent that as the tank fill went down the cold weather performance went down. I sure didn't instrument it but my guess was at least 10 degree F. The stove normally will light but as you experienced it just will not put out much heat. The obvious solution is just buy a new cannister every trip but as I am inherently cheap, I like to drain them dry.
Heat Shields are controversial with canister stoves. Its easy to overheat a cannister from reflected heat from the bottom of the pot. Therefore many are home brew. This one for my pocket rocket is optimized for a specific titanium pot and to minimize fuel use. I suppose someone could extend it down but in my case it was designed to fit in the pot and I wanted to be able to turn the fuel adjustment clip. It made the stove highly resistant to wind and stretched my cannister life by 3 to 4 days. With this base I can summer with the flame just about turned off.
Its just a strip of aluminum flashing with a loose lock seam. The spring in the flashing holds it closed but when I collapse it it lets go and fits in the pot. The clips on the burner are stainless steel TIG rod from a welding store. I expect a heavy duty paperclip might last a few trips but these date back to 2001 and several AT section hikes.
I had a prior version of the Moulder strip for an very old Primus butane stove about 45 years ago. It did not have the velcro on the fuel tank rather it wrapped around it. During a fall campout with a lot of cooking with a big pot it swelled the fuel tank slightly. This was a sign that it could be problem. I think the Moulder Strip velcro concept is better but read the commentary. My guess is my shield with Moulder Strip would be optimum but expect others may have their opinion.
https://backpackinglight.com/forums...t-to-the-test-butane-canister-use-at-21f-29c/
I assume you are aware that different cannisters have different blends of fuel that respond differently to temps. The red MSRs seem to be the pick for cold temps. My and others experiences are that the cold weather performance varies significantly with the amount of fuel in the cannister. On a extended section hike I was trying to stretch cannister life and it was quite apparent that as the tank fill went down the cold weather performance went down. I sure didn't instrument it but my guess was at least 10 degree F. The stove normally will light but as you experienced it just will not put out much heat. The obvious solution is just buy a new cannister every trip but as I am inherently cheap, I like to drain them dry.
Heat Shields are controversial with canister stoves. Its easy to overheat a cannister from reflected heat from the bottom of the pot. Therefore many are home brew. This one for my pocket rocket is optimized for a specific titanium pot and to minimize fuel use. I suppose someone could extend it down but in my case it was designed to fit in the pot and I wanted to be able to turn the fuel adjustment clip. It made the stove highly resistant to wind and stretched my cannister life by 3 to 4 days. With this base I can summer with the flame just about turned off.
Its just a strip of aluminum flashing with a loose lock seam. The spring in the flashing holds it closed but when I collapse it it lets go and fits in the pot. The clips on the burner are stainless steel TIG rod from a welding store. I expect a heavy duty paperclip might last a few trips but these date back to 2001 and several AT section hikes.
I had a prior version of the Moulder strip for an very old Primus butane stove about 45 years ago. It did not have the velcro on the fuel tank rather it wrapped around it. During a fall campout with a lot of cooking with a big pot it swelled the fuel tank slightly. This was a sign that it could be problem. I think the Moulder Strip velcro concept is better but read the commentary. My guess is my shield with Moulder Strip would be optimum but expect others may have their opinion.
Last edited:
Interesting and somewhat scary design (Moulder Strip, that is).
You are right on canister fullness. I, being a penny-pinching new englander, also want to use up every gram of fuel and so my test last night was with a nearly empty canister. I built my heat shield this morning and used a full MSR brand canister, as you suggested, and water boiled in 6 minutes. That said, the canister was warm at 65 degrees but it seems I should be able to get at least that under my jacket.
You are right on canister fullness. I, being a penny-pinching new englander, also want to use up every gram of fuel and so my test last night was with a nearly empty canister. I built my heat shield this morning and used a full MSR brand canister, as you suggested, and water boiled in 6 minutes. That said, the canister was warm at 65 degrees but it seems I should be able to get at least that under my jacket.
Attachments
ChrisB
Well-known member
My .02...
Be generous with yourself and bring a fresh canister for every day of winter outdoor cooking. Even a half-full Iso-Butane canister will not have enough gas pressure to quickly boil water at really cold temps. (You can run the winter canisters dry next summer since you gotta pack em out anyway)
And as far as that Moulder hack goes, looks like an accident waiting to happen to me. I'd sooner carry a white gas stove than wrap a butane cartridge in hot copper!!
Bringing 2 canisters; one for dinner, one for breakfast plus hot water for the hike. I'm tenting near my car near trailhead so weight is not an issue. Will be an interesting couple days. Glad this stove will (should) work. I watched a guy nearly burn up his hand with one of the liquid gas stoves so that will likely never be a stove option I would choose.
My .02...
Be generous with yourself and bring a fresh canister for every day of winter outdoor cooking. Even a half-full Iso-Butane canister will not have enough gas pressure to quickly boil water at really cold temps. (You can run the winter canisters dry next summer since you gotta pack em out anyway)
And as far as that Moulder hack goes, looks like an accident waiting to happen to me. I'd sooner carry a white gas stove than wrap a butane cartridge in hot copper!!
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
You can put the cannister in a bowl or shallow pot of water. As long as the water isn't freezing your can will be warm enough to use the totality of the fuel mixture.
ChrisB
Well-known member
Sounds like a plan!
Back in the day MSR liquid fuel stoves provided lots of excitement at startup. A common refrain often heard was; "Don't start that thing near my tent!" Not sure if they solved that problem.
I set my Pocket Rocket on a 12X12 piece of closed cell foam to insulate it from the ground. But you will find that the canister will cool itself as the gas flows out of it and remaining gas expands within it.
The big burn is usually in the AM when coffee and oatmeal can't wait. I used to toss a gas canister in the sleeping bag (sometimes inside a boot inner) to hit the ground running in the morning. I still hated to get out of the sleeping bag.
This liquid fuel incident was last winter and very bad advertising for MSR. I'm using a fire brick to set my stove on. It makes a nice, flat surface for an otherwise unstable cooking setup. Certainly people with the MSR pocket rocket have had their own dangerous episodes with tipping boiling water.
Yup, getting up in the AM will be the hard part and good idea about putting the canister in the sleeping bag. It's snowing like crazy here so I'm guessing I'll warm up pretty quickly schlepping snowshoes in deep snow.
Yup, getting up in the AM will be the hard part and good idea about putting the canister in the sleeping bag. It's snowing like crazy here so I'm guessing I'll warm up pretty quickly schlepping snowshoes in deep snow.
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
Priming stoves is always the most entertaining part of winter trips. I overpressurized my Svea last winter and closed the valve. It turned the concave bottom into a convex bottom and launched itself and my water about 30 feet across camp. Pounded it back into shape and haven't had any further issues. Those things are literally bomb proof. Lesson learned.
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
Liquid stove flares dont have to happen, its just lack of experience. Far down on list is lack of maintenance. Prime it right and there is no flare up. Prime it wrong and try to makeup for it by trying to light it anyway and there will be a flare.
hikerbrian
Active member
This.
Actually, if you're set on using your Pocket Rocket and weight is not an issue, I'd do both: bring an extra (new) canister, and also bring a shallow bowl of water to sit your cannister in while you're using it. We have this discussion every year in some form or another, and by now I think all of us who contribute regularly know each other's viewpoints.
There are multiple options that will work, and many others that will not or will light you on fire. I sit my Reactor canister in a shallow bowl of water, one of the ones from REI that folds down, and never have problems. Burns hot until the stove goes out and there's no fuel left. If it's very cold out (below zero), I may have to change the water out once, as it cools/freezes eventually. Liquid fuel stoves also work great in experienced hands, but I feel no need to talk you into that. Enjoy, sounds like great fun! One trick for getting yourself going in the morning: pound down several thick squares of chocolate as soon as you wake up, then get your boots and clothes on and do something moderately physically challenging as soon as you step out of your tent - walk up and down a small hill a bunch of times. I will never not be amazed at my body's ability to warm itself that way, even when it's quite cold out.All good ideas - I took a winter backpacking course in the past and the leader had us doing jumping jacks as soon as we stepped outside the tent. Getting too old for that but car will be parked 10 minute walk away so maybe schlepping stuff to the car right away at race pace will work. �� Now, gotta find that chocolate for the best idea yet.
This.
Actually, if you're set on using your Pocket Rocket and weight is not an issue, I'd do both: bring an extra (new) canister, and also bring a shallow bowl of water to sit your cannister in while you're using it. We have this discussion every year in some form or another, and by now I think all of us who contribute regularly know each other's viewpoints.
The directions for my Whisperlite (~12 years old, and neither part of the name is true) say "A brief soccer-ball sized flame is normal."
TEO
Well-known member
Amen! White gas stoves and lanterns are safe and easy to use, but you do need to follow the directions. A trick for priming the MSR Whisperlite without a large flare-up is to quickly shut off the valve as soon as you see fuel in the priming cup, then it should fill the cup to halfway, as the directions indicate. If you wait until the cup is almost halfway full, then you will end up over-filling it.
sierra
Well-known member
I love my MSR pocket rocket, but in the winter I went with white gas. I used the Optimus 8R, don't think they make it anymore, but it was safe and lights out reliable.
jfb
Active member
Starting a white gas stove is actually pretty easy. You just have to know how: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRqdVIqimY
I would not use a canister stove in winter. Its my understanding that the mixture of hydrocarbons consists of stuff with big partial pressure constant differences and the good stuff is consumed more quickly than the stuff which doesnt work so well in the cold.
Primus makes a combination stove.
The thing that is most important to remember is to not scorch your cup/pan.
Primus makes a combination stove.
The thing that is most important to remember is to not scorch your cup/pan.
Last edited:
ChrisB
Well-known member
And don’t forget that eye dropper!
jfb
Active member
With my Phoebus 725, I just used a short plastic tube. I'd open the cap, stick in the tube and put a thumb over the top. Then place the lower end over the fuel cup and lift my thumb. There was just enough fuel to warm up the burner without spilling. Lighting the stove inside my Sierra Designs Glacier tent was never a problem.
Canister stoves in the winter is a problem. I strongly, strongly prefer a white gas stove (Svea) for winter. I would use a Trangia based alcohol stove in deep winter before dealing with a canister stove, but I readily admit this is a matter of lack of experience with canisters on my part. But... old dog/new trick issue... I tend to stick with what I know works each and every time in the deep winter and for me, that's the Svea (or a Trangia).
The issue with MSRs, particularly in the deep cold, is that their standard pumps and o-rings tend to fail in severe cold. I've carried not 1, but 2 MSRs (not mine) out of Crag over the years where the pumps had first leaked and second melted and burned.
A great trick for the Svea is to wrap the vaporizer tube in carbon felt. Makes priming with white gas super easy as it stops the gas from sloshing around.
https://youtu.be/NyzFO06ZLQI
I prefer to prime mine with the throttle set at 1/2 open. This creates more flare-up than I would tolerate inside of a vestibule, but it prevents over-pressurizing and it eliminates the need of catching the prime at just the right time. Also, this priming approach means I can start the stove with a fire-steel 99% of the time (just start the priming bowl and the burner will self light), which has benefits in the cold winter of avoiding dealing with finicky lighters.
If you like canister stoves, my suggestion is to use them well inside of their effective temperature range. For deeper cold, I would recommend another fuel source.
The issue with MSRs, particularly in the deep cold, is that their standard pumps and o-rings tend to fail in severe cold. I've carried not 1, but 2 MSRs (not mine) out of Crag over the years where the pumps had first leaked and second melted and burned.
A great trick for the Svea is to wrap the vaporizer tube in carbon felt. Makes priming with white gas super easy as it stops the gas from sloshing around.
https://youtu.be/NyzFO06ZLQI
I prefer to prime mine with the throttle set at 1/2 open. This creates more flare-up than I would tolerate inside of a vestibule, but it prevents over-pressurizing and it eliminates the need of catching the prime at just the right time. Also, this priming approach means I can start the stove with a fire-steel 99% of the time (just start the priming bowl and the burner will self light), which has benefits in the cold winter of avoiding dealing with finicky lighters.
If you like canister stoves, my suggestion is to use them well inside of their effective temperature range. For deeper cold, I would recommend another fuel source.
