Break out the flame throwers

[timmus]

I took my kids on trails many times without questionning myself about it. I do what I think is right but sometimes I can be wrong. That's raising kids. The only sure thing is that I am mentally exhausted after a small hike with the kids. It's very stressful.

I think my parents did the same thing with me, this is how I found myself sitting on top of a cliff at four years old. My mother was scared to death and my father thought that was cool. You can say they were stupid for taking such a risk, but for me that was the best feeling ever and it became my best childhood souvenir.

Here is one of my favorite hiking photo :

 

[Tuggy]

picture of kid in above link

I wouldn't be comfortable putting a four year old in that situation.

 

[timmus]

I wouldn't be comfortable putting a four year old in that situation.

Oups No confusion here : That is not a photo of me with my father. This photo come from a book -Scrambles in the Canadian Rockies, by Alan Kane. (photo by Gillean Daffern)

 

[Tuggy]

Nevermind then.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

As I once stated in another thread, my ultimate dream is to hike someday with my son at my side and my grandchild in that same Kelty carrier.

Not there yet, but when I do hike with my son, (the guy I carried down Marshall in a pack), he says to me,

"Why don't you give me some of the heavy stuff in your pack, so that it's easier for you."

Which gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, until he says,

"Old men shouldn't have to carry so much weight."

 

[sierra]

I only read the question not any off the responses. Im single I have no kids, but I say if someone wants to carry a kid in that manner its their right.

 

[Dugan]

Two words: Baby Bag.

If you can sew, I found patterns for the kind with legs, and another variety that was a rectangular sack at Wal-mart several months ago. Both had several variations - with a hood, with arms, arms that had flip top mittens... I'm not much of a sewer, but the patterns were easy to follow.

Depending on your choice of material - I think polar fleece is mind numbingly difficult to work with - these could be quite warm.

(sorry, I'll go back to the dog thread now)

 

[percious]

My wife and I are also talking about starting a family....I am loathe to give up hiking though. How many of you do full (10+ miles) overnight hikes with your babies/toddlers? (i.e. Bondcliff with night at Guyot etc.)

Re the safety topic... guess you have to be more careful how you swing your ice axe when you have a baby on your back

I once thought I would be able to overnight with my son when he was small. It never happened. The problem came down to gear. With 20lbs of baby, plus diapers (soiled and otherwise) it is difficult (but not impossible) to carry that much stuff. My solution was to bring a sherpa (friend) to carry most of my gear, and some of my son's. It never panned out for me. Instead, I took my son on a series of local daytrips and a few overnighters in the summer with car-camping.

This spring Colden is going to be three. In the summer I plan to take him on a 3 day adventure to Marcy Dam, with an attempt at Phelps. He already hikes 1 1/2 miles at so I don't think it will be too much of a jump to get him to hike 2 miles on his own.

So do you have to give up your hiking? I dunno. Definitely expect it to be toned down a bit for a couple of years. My deal with my wife is 6 babyless trips a year, and she gets to fly down to MD to visit her family while I'm up north. I consider myself very lucky. It's tough in the early months with the night feedings and just having a baby to take care of constantly, so plan accordingly.

Having kids is great and I would never use hiking freedom to guage whether or not to have them. Emily and I are expecting our second boy (Marshall) in early April.

-percious

 

[percious]

Everyone seemed to like my last picture so I thought I would post another one.

http://www.percious.com/hiking/adk ...ust 2005/17 - Indian Head in the Distance.jpg

This was taken on the Scenic Trail going up Sawteeth. What a CLIMB! Notice the clothing again, the ever-present Kanga, and a new twist, a cookie!

You may also notice the change in backpack. That Kelty pack was a nightmare and left me bruised after just a few hours. The Tough Traveler is made in the US (Scenectady, NY), is 4 lbs lighter, and is comfortable for a bout 10 hours.

Another suggestion is to get a camelback un-bottle. I attach mine right below Colden's crotch there, and we both drink from it. Just be careful, if your kid drinks too much, his diaper may explode! (don't ask how I know)

-percious

 

[tycho_32]

I have a daughter who is almost one as does my hiking partner. As has been stated before it all comes down to realizing what you are capable of and what a small child is capable of. I absolutely plan on carrying my daughter up mountains next spring and fall. I absolutely will not put her in any danger. I have completed all but 10 of the 48 and have hiked numerous other smaller mountains. I know which hikes to take her on and which ones not to. Tuckermans or King Ravine right out. Gorge Brook on Moosilauke no reason why not.

 

[una_dogger]

Just imagine what a cool person that kid's going to grow up to be, though!

 

[adkpooh]

hiking with kids

I guess I am not bothered by experienced hikers carrying small children than I am by parents that do not or barely watch their children when on the trail. While heading up Giant this summer, my boyfriend and I met up with a man asking if we "saw a little kid go by?".....I don't know about anyone else but that makes my heart drop. That wasn't the first time we have heard that phrase in a trail.
Not to mention, the numerous times we have been on lesser peaks, oblivious/exhausted parents who eventually scream at their kids to "get away from the edge!!". The trash that we have seen left behind from groups hiking with kids is unbelieveable....never concerned that the drink boxes they handed out - were never handed back. I have even frequently seen groups of teenage boys...(summer camps or scouts) tearing down (and around) trails at top speed- like a herd... snapping the trees and saplings that they grab on to.....dislodging every rock in sight.....we have even witnessed some nasty spills as well. (alright.....I would be lying if the thought to slip one of those boys a $50 to get my pack down to the truck didn't at least cross my mind....) The question is....where the heck are the parents or guardians?
On the other hand, Dave and I bumped into a man and his daughter who was - this many (holds up 3 fingers)...she had her pink Barbie backpack and beat us up and down Cascade on foot with her fathers help - that was truly awesome! I don't remember the number.....but she had completed more high peaks than we had!
I guess my point is.....to truly teach and hike WITH your children (no matter what age....) is the safest bet....if it starts out with a carrier- so be it.

 

[percious]

I hole-heartedly agree with your sentiments regarding those kids that have no respect for the wilderness. I believe that it is the parent's job to foster an appreciation for the wilderness.

I give my son a lot of latitude on the trail. When he is out of the pack, he pretty much goes at his own pace, explores what he wants. I make it a point to show him where the trail goes, and he will wander off, but at this point I am uncomfortable letting him out of my sight. Sometimes I will play hide and seek behind a tree, and Colden gets a kick out of that. He seems comfortable in the woods, and I feel that being calm in the woods is the first step in survival, should something catastrophic happen. I don't expect Colden to do anything at this age, and I don't plan at-risk hikes, I'm just fostering his confort in the woods for future leadership.

As Colden grows I know that he will become more and more independent. I will encourage this, but set the ground rules. He will know LNT and practice it, or he won't go. If he goes on ahead on a trail, I don't see a problem with it if he waits for me when he doesn't know where he is going (IE a trail junction).

So, I guess I am saying I don't see a problem with kids off on their own in a wilderness setting as long as they have a respect for the continued preservation of the land.

-percious

 

[smitty77]

I always hike within my limits when I have the little one on my back. I stick to low elevation stuff like Wachusett and Monadnock (twice), and only on nice warm days. If you use the right carrier, there is very little risk involved unless you take a really acrobatic header, in which case I would question your hiking ability in general, nevermind with a passenger. Sure there is always a risk, but I try to minimize that risk by sticking to trails I know well and take my time. It's not always about the mileage. If you make it fun, the end result is a kid that cries when you go hiking without him.

As for carriers, I have a Kelty and can vouch for the restraint system. Think carseat for your back. They really can't generate a lot of intertia back there to throw you off balance unless they're throwing a tantrum to get out. Then I refer you to Percious' comment on happy kids = happy trails. I too have toys on belay.

 

[Neil]

One solution to keeping tabs of the young'uns on the trail: get a pair of RINOs. Not only will you know your kid's exact position at all times and watch him move on your screen but you can talk to him!

I know I know, one goes hiking to get away from all that stuff but it would do the job, wouldn't it?

 

[mavs00]

ADKPooh (and others),

I can't speak to kids and carriers, as I have no practical experience in it.

But I hear what you saying and agree with much of it. I just have to add a couple caveats, if I may. I (have and do) hike extensively with my children. In the past 8 years or so, All of us have spent well over 1000 hrs romping through the Adirondack woods together (on and off trail). We've completed the 46 and my son is has over 70 at the ADK HH and seems to be equally at ease on and off-trail. We've done a few things together that I certainly had to give him the "Don't tell your mom about this okay" (right Peakbagr ). He has successfully navigated up and down peaks that have NO TRAIL anywhere near then. My daughter is no slouch either. As many that have hiked with her can attest, she will outhike 80% of the adults she hikes with, She's done some stuff that almost killed us and she didn't shut up to catch her breath all day . They are 14 and 12 respectively. My point is, by many standards, I would consider that my kids are as experienced, and in many cases MORSO, from a hiking standpoint than many that you may come across out there.

FOR THE MOST PART (**see below**) would not hesitate to let them wander a few minutes ahead of me on the trail. They have demonstrated and earned that right over the years to take those baby steps forward. Now, I really longer teach them, they learn by doing and experiencing. My point is not to brag on them (although I am proud), I just want to point out that it may be THEM (or others like them as they are NOT unique in this) that you pass by. You may see this 14 & 12 year old go by, and my wife and I following a few minutes behind, and I might certainly ask you "Hey, did you see two kids go by" (as a normal "keeping tabs" remark). I would hope that you would not think "God, what horrible parents". I'd like to think that that is not the case. Perhaps it's me that's wrong though.

Its not an altogether uncommon scenario. About a year ago, we were strolling by the JLB at about 6PM (in summer) after completing a Haystack, Basin, Saddleback loop. There was this couple that were sitting on the deck that obviously saw us go by at about 7 AM that morning. The woman looked over and LOUDLY (so as we would hear). said "I can't believe those people kept that POOR little girl out there all day". I was fumed and wanted to say something, but knew I wouldn't. My astute 11 y/o daughter however, calmly walked over and purposely took her pack off (we were taking a break) and laid it on the deck, 46r patch obviously face up, right next to her. Seems as the remark irked her as well.

So I guess the purpose is just to remind everyone that not all kids you see out there are disrespectful and totally clueless neophytes or as tender as their years may make them appear.

--------------------------------

I MUST ADD - While I am very comfortable with my kids backcountry experience and skills, I sometimes do forget that they are still kids. I must remember that and would remind those that are getting into hiking, or are still in the process of hiking with kids too. As they get more experience, we tend to forget that. For example, About a year ago, coming off Redfield, we let my son (then 13) drift about ahead of us coming down (he descends faster then we like). No biggie, he certainly was capable of following the trail down and had proved that to us over and over. We had NO ISSUE with that, and besides, he was literally only 100 yds ahead of us.

What perhaps he wasn't prepared for was coming face to face with a 300 lb Black Bear rummaging off the side of the trail. It ambled off quickly and most of us would agree, an incidental sighting of one of the most majestic of Adirondack creatures, is awe inspiring. I will tell tell you, to a 13 year old BOY alone in the woods (in his own mind anyway), it can be a terrifying experience. Later though, he thought it was cool and denied how really SCARED he was (of course )

So we must continue to teach and allow our children to grown and ultimately form their OWN bond with the great outdoors, but we cannot unleash them to discover it too quickly either. It's a delicate balance.

Sorry this is so long, I just got to writing and it got away from me.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I would consider that my kids are as experienced, and in many cases MORSO, from a hiking standpoint than many that you may come across

Reading that reminds me of the time I was camping at Marcy Dam, with JR, when he ws 9 years old. I sent him to get water from the spring, and after a bit, he came back with a HUGE smile on his face.

"Know what happened?"

"What, tell me."

"An ADULT asked me directions, and I was able to tell him!!!"

He was thrilled to know more than an adult.

 

[adkpooh]

Eyes wide open.....now

I stand corrected!!
Thanks, Mavs00, Percious and PeteH.....it had never occurred to me that ability to "hike ahead" might have well earned over the years. I had always taken the stance that some people assumed or expected the rest of the world would babysit. Not that I have or ever would scold someone for asking a "did you pass" type of question.... I think my well hidden "inner mother" does panic. (OMG...a kid...out of ear-shot!...lost?!?... oh no!) I have been a bad adult!

I am going to my room now....

ADK

 

[Quietman]

Funny,

I recently hiked Skatutakee with my 76 yr young father and my sons and let my father hike ahead and then tried to catch up with him. Came to a poorly marked junction with the obvious trail heading in the wrong direction and figured that my dad had gone the wrong way. Ran down the trail about a mile and figured that he couldn't have gone that far. Ran back only to find one of my sons at the junction saying that my dad had hidden behind a rock to scare me but I had run passed him before he could say BOO. I was pissed but had to laugh. I guess it's safer to assume the worst, but boy did I feel like an ass!

The moral of the story, stay together whenever possible. Expecially with the young and old, and me(middle aged and stupid).

 

[BorealChickadee]

Hiking with babies and toddlers- did it all the time. I also liked the Tough Traveler, huge improvemt on the one we had for my older son many moons ago! As for the weight of all the baby stuff- my solution for that first year and a half was to use a jogging stroller on snowmobile/bike trails and put the heavy baby stuff in the wire basket underneath and then load another 40+ pounds on my back. And when there's a lightning storm, I can tell you that a loaded baby and stuff can make it out of Camp Santanoni on a run in 35 minutes to the building by the barn. Don't ask how long it took me to catch my breath afterwards. Then around 3 years old they can walk alternating with being carried . This again is with a full backpack for overnights. You can get 3 or miles in quite easily this way.

kids and energy and resiliency- We took my older son up Katahdin for the first time when he was five. We got down and he pulled out his bike and rode it around the campground like nothing had happened.

The great thing about starting them young is to teach them to "read" a trail. From the very beginning I let my preschool son lead so he would get used to finding markers and then later picking up subtle signs of a trail such as overturned leaves in the fall when the trail itself can't be seen. There's an art to reading the woods and he might as well learn it as young as possible.

If you get your kids out early in life they won't turn into the type that others complain about. They're looking at the woods just like you. And along the way you'll count a gazillion frogs and toads and red efts. I'll never forget the time he was eight and dropped down on his belly to take a close up picture of a trout lily. Priceless.

Is he still droppping on;his belly for flowers? No, but he's a big teen and there's other things in the world competing for his exploring. But he's still hiking, backpacking, skiing, snowshoeing, canoeing, kayaking...