compass vs gps

[forestgnome]

I admire technological advancement and those minds that create it. The concept of putting the satellites in orbit and communicating with them via mminiturized devices to determine exact location, or to communicate, is really cool.

Any tool that helps people from being lost while recreating is fine with me. It's a 'hike your own hike' situation. Nessmuck makes good sense about the usefulness of GPS for SAR type operations, etc.

GPS does not have a place for my forest wanderings. I carry three compasses and two watches, but I seldom even use those when I'm off trail. I like to get as far away as possible from trails, watching the land and sky the whole way. Sometimes I'll pull out the watch or compass to see how acurate my senses are. Otherwise, I'm smelling, listening and observing all that is the forest. GPS just wouldn't fit in.

 

[Nessmuk]

Sure such tales exist and I'm sure that many are true. But there are also hikers who carry topo map and compass and don't know how to use them either.

Yup, I've sure run into a lot of them too. The same "but I brought the equipment with me" (but not enough knowledge) philosophy applies.

And last November I helped haul the cold body of a 76 year old man out of the western ADK woods after searching for him for 7 days. The guy owned and had hunted the property for the past 50 years, but for some reason wandered off into a thick spruce swamp (perhaps stalking a deer) before it started to snow. He probably hadn't used even a simple compass in there for years, but this time that's all that would have saved his life. So would have an air horn (he was not far from first day searchers), and a GPS, and a satellite phone, and a personal helicopter equipped with bull horn and radios with infrared camera tracker keeping tabs. He had none of those either.

Point is, you gotta know what you need, know how to use what you've got, and not get complacent. Not ever.

 

[Nessmuk]

hey all you multi compass packing people out there. are y'all actually carrying 2 or 3 regular compi (yeah, its a word now) or a real compass and a mini-one with a thermometer? that's what i do and i can't imagine carrying multiple full compi (yeah, its still a word, kinda like guinni, mmmm.....beer). are you mostly worried about losing it or breaking it on whacks? or do y'all bring extra compi on trail hikes too?

just curious, thanks,

I wear my primary compass around my neck, which used to be a Silva Ranger but a recent bubble in the liquid has caused me to retire my old friend mirrored ranger for a quality rectangular baseplate orienteering model. With terrain observation nav techniques, I rarely had need for the minimal extra accuracy of the heavy mirror anyway. I keep a spare, equally good but slightly smaller baseplate model compass in my emergency kit in my pack. A wise man once told me... carry 3 compi (strange word)... one for yourself, one in case you lose the first, and a third for a forgetful friend. So the third yet smaller baseplate style compass I put in a third place, tucked in my map case. I do not carry a spare map, but I spend enough time pre-trip on map study to recognize the lay of the land enough to find my way out with one of the compi (weird word) if the map should become lost. It never has, though it once went for a swim down the river for a bit without me, another time it decided to keep company with a beaver dam after I moved on.

 

[CaptCaper]

Well one thing sure is if the Pilgrims had it in 1620 maybe Boston would still be woods. Eh?

 

[dms]

I've been bushwacking for over 25 years with a map , compass and altimeter, never once have I had any one of them fail me. I've done all the 3ks in VT, ME, and I have only a few bw's left in ME, to finish the New England 3k's. To the best of my knowledge no one who has finished the NE 3ks has done so using anything but those tools, so those are the standards that guide me in my quest. On any bw's I do, gps's are not part of the mix. I am definitely an old school bushwacker, unapologetic and proud of that fact.

 

[dr_wu002]

I've been bushwacking for over 25 years with a map , compass and altimeter, never once have I had any one of them fail me. I've done all the 3ks in VT, ME, and I have only a few bw's left in ME, to finish the New England 3k's. To the best of my knowledge no one who has finished the NE 3ks has done so using anything but those tools, so those are the standards that guide me in my quest. On any bw's I do, gps's are not part of the mix. I am definitely an old school bushwacker, unapologetic and proud of that fact.

I agree with Dennis except that I'm much younger and less experienced. It does come down to a matter of opinion and what your goal is. I have to say though, when I first started hiking I'd wander off trail, miss junctions etc. But I've been able to develop a keen sense of not only the forest around me but also features, logging roads, grades in the distance, moose paths, animal traffic, cliffs, slides etc. I don't think I'd have been able to develop that had I used a GPS. I'm still learning how to recognize and read subtle features in the landscape and sometimes I don't even find the canister but for me it's been important to develop a strong sense of logic, and a crisp, clean awareness of my surroundings.

I carry a GPS and know how to use it but never have while hiking. Even as a safety advice, I would rather know and understand where the nearest trail is and what direction if I had to just bust out and bail.

I realize that my ideas are my own. If you want to use a GPS, that's fine by me. We could get into an ethical debate about posting waypoints to various off trail peaks, cliffs, waterfalls etc. but that is for a different (and much more heated) thread.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Woody]

Have Batteries - Never Lost

With my map and my compass along with my gps I have a high degree of confidence that I know exactly where I am and I know how to get where I am going. I always try to have waypoints programmed into my gps from my topo software especially when going above tree line. When I actually get to the programmed waypoint (99.8 percent of the time without using the gps) my gps shows me of being within 300 feet of the mark downloaded off the computer. I will then reposition the waypoint to the actual position on the gps. I do carry several lithium AA batteries on all my hikes for both my gps and my headlamp.

 

[forestgnome]

What is meant by 'posting a waypoint'? I hope it doesn't mean leaving some visible device in the forest.

 

[lx93]

What is meant by 'posting a waypoint'? I hope it doesn't mean leaving some visible device in the forest.

Forest,

No, "Posting a waypoint" just means that you program a reference point into your GPS. For example, the trailhead, a trail junction, spring, hut, etc.

 

[CaptCaper]

Here we go again. O.K. Here's my 02 cents.
This argument is similar to one found down on the ocean. Some guys like to spend time down at the chart station ploting a course with the red light, sliding rule,using dead reckoning,etc. That's fine I enjoy it too. Heck I aced the Ploting part for the USCG Master Captains exam. But navigating that way it has it's limitations.. That's were the GPS can take over.
Don't get me wrong I use maps,compass's as well. And should only use the gps as backup or as a enhancement tool. Usually we have three different types of maps and two or three compasses as use. But after using GPS's of all kinds since 1996 to navigate in thick fog,finding shipwrecks,etc. I can't fight the urge not to use it in the mountains. I find coupled with the the PC it brings into the scene a whole new experience and to a greater level.
One example is my son's and I exchange recorded hikes instantly over the IM along with pic's it tells the whole story of what his hike was like that day and I can save the track to reload for back up if I ever want to do that hike.
Also on the summits I can tell exactly what summits were looking at and distance on a 90 mi. visibility day from any angle with. An aid for a flatlander like me who didn't grow up in the mountains.
The list goes on and on.

Capt.

 

[giggy]

What is meant by 'posting a waypoint'? I hope it doesn't mean leaving some visible device in the forest.

the ones I leave are all invisible - no worries.

 

[forestgnome]

Forest,

No, "Posting a waypoint" just means that you program a reference point into your GPS. For example, the trailhead, a trail junction, spring, hut, etc.

Awesome! Thanks.

 

[Gamehiker]

I'm a map freak, always have been always will be. I'm somewhat a novice with a compass but I'm learning. So far I am using the GPS only to check my elevation. I haven't bought the map software and from what I've read on this site I probably won't. I experimented with entering coordinates from Google Earth into the GPS and came out .6 mile off. (This was in town not in the woods!) This confirmed for me that map and compass are the way to go.

 

[DougPaul]

I'm a map freak, always have been always will be. I'm somewhat a novice with a compass but I'm learning. So far I am using the GPS only to check my elevation. I haven't bought the map software and from what I've read on this site I probably won't. I experimented with entering coordinates from Google Earth into the GPS and came out .6 mile off. (This was in town not in the woods!) This confirmed for me that map and compass are the way to go.

It more likely confirms that you mixed datums.

None of the 3 technologies is proof against operator error...

Doug

 

[Gamehiker]

It more likely confirms that you mixed datums.

None of the 3 technologies is proof against operator error...

Doug

All the more reason for me to stick with map and compass, I should think.

 

[MattC]

I don't own a GPS-if I had that much $$$ for a single piece of gear, I would spend it on something else. I've hiked a few times w/ friends who are using their GPS and I have mixed feelings about it. Case in point, yesterday-T-max and I were bushwhacking in the Catskills. We used a combination of map, compass and GPS. There were a couple of points where her GPS was a very helpful source of information.

She was basically using it like this-she would look up a waypoint for a peak she had saved in the past, and the GPS would give her a compass bearing for that peak. I would then use that information along with the map. They weren't always peaks we were headed for, but knowing their location helped confirm where we were at times. She was doing this with peaks that weren't visible to us due to forest cover. Had we been standing in an exposed area, we would just be able to see the peaks, take compass bearings and obtain the information that way. So the GPS was being used in this case to sort of lift us over the tree cover. One might also use it this way when weather conditions prevent visibility, sort of the way pilots use radar.

Now, having said all that-I personally feel that I was pretty lazy and lackadaisical about orienteering before this hike and early on during the hike. We had to compensate for this later and I feel it made the hike harder than it had to be. Was I lazy early on because I was w/ someone w/ a GPS? I don't know, perhaps. If I was alone, would I have been much more meticulous both pre-hike and during the hike? Absolutely no question about it, yes. A little more care early on and we never would have had to check those wapoints in the first place.

So, to sum up-it's the old cliche that all technology can be useful and it can be abused. I think GPS can be a very useful tool, as long as you don't let it substitute for m&c skills. Some people use it to augment map and compass, others rely on it excessively. One or two I have met seem to need the thing to find their way in and out of their boots. I remember one guy I met who took out a GPS at a trail junction to "figure out where he was."
Not just a trail, a trail junction. With signs.

Matt

 

[spencer]

I've voiced my thoughts many times before on this subject. I use GPS units routinely for work but I find it takes most of the fun out of my free time in the woods.

Let's say you like to bushwhack and you come home from a trip and you are pretty cut up with all those puffy red scrapes on your face and arms, bruised, wet, and smiling. Your family and friends scoff at you and wonder what you could possibly enjoy about such a trip.

Well, you give them the usual answer of it's the whole package: challenge, solitude (or companionship), getting away from it all, seeing the views, etc.

Now imagine you took away the challenge component??? Why bother leaving the trail?

I'm with Schlimmer. Based on the handful of threads we've both piped in on, I suspect we have a lot in common (he's just several hundred peaks ahead of me!)

A couple of days ago I got lost in a part of campus that I don't frequent. My boss, who I was with, turned to me and said, "for a guy who orienteers all over Maine this sure threw you for a loop. Maybe you should have brought a GPS today." He just doesn't understand....

spencer

 

[Nessmuk]

I've voiced my thoughts many times before on this subject. I use GPS units routinely for work but I find it takes most of the fun out of my free time in the woods.

I think we should form a club.

 

[Dennis C.]

I've used map, compass, and altimeter for years bagging peaks all over the Northeast. I think the GPS was in its infancy when I completed the NE 770 in 1997, and still needed a lot of refinement to what they are today. Needless to say, I didn't have one then and still haven't gotten one for a more limited climbing agenda in the present. But that doesn't mean I don't respect their potential as an instrument to pinpoint accurate locations. Like all climbers, I have gotten disoriented at times out there in the bush. I think they're a good supplement to the basic skills necessary for back country maneuvers.

 

[cushetunk]

Topo Maps

I gotta say, even on bushwhacks I rarely use my compass. Usually, I just study the map and backstop everything. I supose if I had a GPS, I could have added a few more destinations to some sort of check list, but that seems a bit silly. Count me among those who prefer their off-trail challenges without a "you are here" sign.