Courtesy to hunters

[Grumpy]

I’ll rephrase my earlier remarks, with commentary.

Taking care to not interfere with someone else’s legal and legitimate enjoyment of shared ground is not conceding anything to them. It is common courtesy and something of a neccesity if we are to maintain a civil society. Courtesy begets courtesy. Rudeness, resentment and animosity breeds rudeness, resentment and animosity in return. What all this adds up to is that ordinary courtesy serves our own best interests as well as those of others. It’s just plain smart living.

Wearing bright colors so you’re readily visible to hunters while traipsing through the woods, is no “concession” to hunters. It’s looking out for yourself, and that makes it just plain smart.

Avoiding situations or places when and where others (hunters, in this case) are doing something perfectly legal and legit but that makes you uncomfortable -- irrespective of whether or not your discomfort is rational -- is not “making a concession” either. It’s just bending to your own quirks.

Wearing a seat belt when you drive your car is not “making a concession” to idiot drivers (the other guys). The nanny-staters have decided to make it mandatory by law, but that doesn’t negate the simple fact that wearning a seat belt protects your own interests and is just plain smart.

Doing that which best serves your own well being and your own quirks of preference is no concession to anyone else. It is a matter of choice -- your own choice. You need do none of the things given as examples above, or you may elect to do some or all of those things and many others. You may experience unhappy consequences if you choose poorly. But that's your problem.

Suggesting that the other guy somehow is getting greater “consideration” than you receive because you have such choices to make is to torture reason.

G.

 

[SherpaKroto]

You know, this has me all riled up now. I get real upset when I have to alter my hike plans because it rains, and a slide is too slick to be safe. And winter - darn if I don't have to wear all this extra stuff like crampons and snowshoes. Poke my head above treeline and I have to wear this decidedly unfashionable balaclava! I can't stand all these changes in my otherwise strict and unflexible life. And now those darn hunters insist that I wear this foolish looking orange thing, and even think about where I am hiking! Who do they think they are, coming out in MY woods and making me modify my life like this? I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more!

Yeah, right. Me and my dog are grabbing my cell phone and going fishing. And don't think I'm going to yield to you hikers (or hunters) when I meet you on the trail. Especially you Republicans and Yankees lovers. It's MY woods, so stay out of them.

And for anyone not getting my sarcasm, please help me pull my firmly stuck tongue out of my cheek

On another note. I come from a hunting family (very few hikers). Some of my earliest memories are with my father, grandfather, great grandfather, uncles, and cousins at the hunting camp. I remember when the "new" camp was built in 1965, modular style (before anyone did that) at my uncle's house, and transported piece by piece to the site. I still go there every year (to fish - I no longer hunt). I have just as much fun there as when I hike. The camp has been passed down from generation to generation, always within the family. Tradition is large in many hunting families, and I love getting together around the fire at the camp with my brother and cousins. If this isn't a little slice of heaven, I don't know what is.

When you see a hunter, smile, chat if you like, move on, and know that you've met another person who is doing what they love to do. I see no problem with that. There is room for all of us.

 

[alpinista]

Nice touch with the antlers above the door, Sherp! I too had hunters in my family -- my grandfather used to actually hunt and trap and fish as a way to take care of his family. But that part of my family history has disappeared, and I'm probably the only one who actually gets into the woods these days. (But I don't hunt animals -- only peaks!)

 

[Stan]

Out of safety I generally, but not always, avoid hunting areas in hunting season. I am less concerned with my equal rights to the outdoors, or anything else, than with doing my share to make the other guy's opportunity to such enjoyment as important as my own. And, though I'm not enthused about hunting, I really really do enjoy eating wild game .. the ultimate free range delight (when properly dressed and prepared).

Other than that, Amen to Sherpa's reply.

... but I can't help wonder if more hunting accidents happen to flatlanders with an attitude.

 

[Peakbagr]

well stated

Grumpy, buckle your seatbelt, here comes a compliment. Simply elegant summary of my thoughts.

And Sherpa, bravo also.

PB

 

[twigeater]

I've hunted (never killed) I like deer meat, and I have plenty of stuff to do in November besides hike - like throw in five cord of wood.

I stay out of the woods more out of respect for the hunters short little one month season than any other reason.

 

[imarchant]

answer to original question

..... I was thinking of doing a Catskill backback next weekend - if you stay on the trails are you likely to interfere with hunters? I know they only get about 1 month per year so I would hate to spoil their few moments in the woods.

I assume by hunting you mean Big Game Shotgun/rifle season. This season starts on Nov. 22 this year, so next weekend should be safe. It will be open season for: various species of small game and fur bearers, Archery for deer and bear.

So have fun, you won't even have to make any concessions.

See the NYSDEC website for more details. http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/guide/huntseas.html

Just my opinion: As a group hunters are more considerate of the environment than hikers. Also hunters are making a sacrifice by not hunting 11 out of 12 month of the year.

 

[Rik]

When I go hiking I prepare for anything I encounter that might threaten my safety and enjoyment of the adventure. This would include warm clothing and snowshoes in winter, raingear anytime of year, earplugs for noisy bunk mates, and something orange during hunting season. I don't not hike due to any of them. Doesn't feel like a concession to me just taking care of myself and doing my part to avoid an accident which would be awful to all involved.
As for where hunters mightbe found. I have actually seen hunters fairly high up at times in the Catskills. On a hike up Panther a couple of years ago I came across hunters almost as high as Giant Ledge and could see where something had been dragged from up that high.

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

I climbed the Blackhead Range today. I saw a couple of hunters at the trailhead, but didn't see any once I got in the woods. I could hear gunshots in the distance.
Hunters are not likely to go very far into the forest or climb very far up. I don't think deer season has started yet in NY.

Hey Rivet. I think we saw the same hunters. We did a loop over Windham yesterday and when we parked at the end of Big Hollow Road we saw a few hunters. For some reason I thought deer rifle season wasn't until after this weekend, but somewhere above it said muzzle loading began? Not sure what each thing is ... We had forgotten our orange vests and were a little nervous when we pulled up and saw hunters, but hiked anyway (and did hear gunshots). Thought the same thing that a hunter wouldn't be too far up the trail as they would have to drag a deer back. With all the deer you see along the road, in people's yards, on golf courses, why even bother going in to the woods.

 

[ripple]

Holdstrong.....
I think the issue you have is just a personal issue. I don't believe anyone posted agreeing w/ you. Your little softballfield analogy doesn't hold water. It is just a matter of sharing, share the woods they aren't yours. I think your argument is pathetic. Just b/c you are not getting anything out of the deal. Did your mommy teach you to share? When swimming I have to share the lake w/ boaters. Oh no how terrible I have to stay in this roped off area to swim, what am I getting out of the deal by letting boaters have all that space to boat. The lake isn't mine and people enjoy different things, so let it be. Seems selfish to get all huffy puffy, b/c you think you are getting the short end of the stick.

 

[Rick]

I'm sorry Holdstrong, but I fail to see the analogy. Since it is very likely to be illegal to use a motorized vehicle on most local parks, playgrounds, ballfields and school game areas, I don't really think it is a proper matchup and if they were rippin' round the bases, I'd probably call the local police.

Can we change the analogy to kids flying kites or playing soccer or whatever else would be a LEGAL and RECOGNIZABLE activity in a park.
It then leaves you with a choice - You can walk over nicely and ask them if they can move over some and share the space with you and I think most would be curteous and oblige or if you think whatever you say otr how you say it would cause a confrontation, you can head somewhere else and enjoy your day. Think about it, is that the worst thing that can happen to you???

It seems you are making this into an "all or nothing situation" and when that happens, I think everybody feels loss.

 

[ripple]

and since I seem to be the only one who sees it,
Happy hiking

Since you are the only one who sees it maybe it does not exist. Like people who here voices. Maybe you are spoiled and want to have everything for yourself. Maybe you just don't realize sharing is not always 50/50. It is a few months out of the year. Hunters help keep land around for you and me. Just get over it and enjoy your hike.

 

[Waumbek]

Just for the record, I have bagged hikes because of hunters. Last time was in the Randolph hills during bear season. I just didn't want to hear all the guns as solitude and quiet are important to me on hikes. I now go to Maine on Sundays in NH rifle deer season to hike or hike steep straight-up trails at home in Franconia. This is my choice, of course, and it's not really the issue here. I think the concept of "multi-use," which prevails widely in WMNF and NH state parks, is at the center of things. So far as I understand it, "multi-use" is not really meant to be an ethos of "sharing" as we're defining it here. "Multi-use" just says that such and such groups all legally get to use an area, and it's up to the groups to figure out on their own how to do that within the limits of the law. Multi-use will naturally tend to favor the person driving the machine over the person walking or skiing, the person wielding the potentially deadly firearm over the unarmed person, and so forth, but the concept of "multi-use" doesn't address how to work out any possible inequities that may effectively undermine it. At least that's my understanding of "multi-use" but maybe someone who knows wilderness law can explain further. So I wouldn't romanticize "multi-use," and it would also be a big job to change it. Which brings me back to Maine, which actually dictates a Sunday ban on hunting throughout the year. I think this ban started out as a "blue law" rather than as any recognition of inequities in "multi-use" but wherever it came from, it seems firmly in place and I appreciate it and take advantage of it.

 

[ripple]

I hope "you hikers" appreciate the efforts "we hunters" put into land conservation etc etc. I am done with this. OH no you have to wear orange for a few weeks. I would like to think you would have more important things to worry about then to sit here saying you are getting the short end of the stick. In the remote chance that you are getting the short end, it is a really big stick enjoy what you have and thank everybody, the hunters, x country skiers, hikers, snowomobilers and all the other groups that fight to keep the land for all of us to use. So really stop acting like a spoiled child grow up and go for a hike.

 

[ripple]

Because when you make it seem like we are just doing what is expected of us.

You know when I cross the street I look both ways, not because it is expected from the oncoming cars but I do it for my own safety.

 

[ripple]

LOL - melt down

intelligent reply!!!!

 

[hilldog]

Ive personally never been hunting but have no moral or any other objections to the sport. (and if we can call golf or bowling etc, or even hiking, a sport then I see no reason not to call hunting a sport). I also have no problem with hiking during hunting season provided its legal to do so...I would however wear orange without any resentment....just as if I'm running or cycling in the morning or evening while its dark out I would wear orange to be visible to drivers. Should I feel resentful that I might need to be more visible to drivers while we are 'sharing' the roads?

 

[lumberzac]

Big Game season in the Adirondacks (including regular, muzzle loading, and archery seasons) = 77 days a year.

Days without big game hunting = 288 days a year.

You're right it isn't 50/50

 

[ripple]

Well I think your attitude of "poor me" is pathetic. By the way I don't hunt. No time to w/ peaks to bag.

""take for granted" attitude of obligation as if we somehow OWE it to you to make these concessions."


Hikers doen't owe it to hunters to be safe, they owe it to themselves. What is it you want some special recognition, maybe a plague b/c you wear orange during hunting season, or maybe avoid a place b/c it is hunting season. Well if the hunters will allow me to speak for them. THank you holdstrong for being such a super person! There you go. happy?


Done w/ the silly back and forth. Have a great hike.

 

[Rivet]

Hey Rivet. I think we saw the same hunters. We did a loop over Windham yesterday and when we parked at the end of Big Hollow Road we saw a few hunters.

Quite possible. I started from the same lot at around 9:15am. I wasn't too worried about hunters once I reached the ridge.

Saw a couple of dogs on the trail not on a leash (oh, the horror ). One of them had an orange vest on. Cute.