Crampons: Step-In vs. Strap-In

[sli74]

I have the newmatics and they really are the best of both worlds. I can put them on in a couple of minutes though I usually have to take my mittens off to do it. Get new crampons Darren, you can't let me show ya up

sli74

 

[Clown]

I just bought a pair of new-matics and they are very easy to put on. It can be done with gloves, but not with mittens, and it only takes a few minutes.

 

[Frodo]

I own both the Grivel G-12 New-Matics and the "old school" strap on (Charlotte Moser). The New-Matics work excellent with my plastic double boots (which the heal section of the G-12's locks into), but do not work very well with my Asolo leather 3 season boots (the heal section of the crampon shifts around). I use my 10 year old strap on crampons for those...

 

[darren]

The New-Matics work excellent with my plastic double boots (which the heal section of the G-12's locks into), but do not work very well with my Asolo leather 3 season boots

I have the La Sportiva Glacier boots. They have the "Vibram® Ice-New crampon compatible sole accepts newmatic (aka new-matic, semi-auto or Scottish toe) crampons from many manufacturers" so I should be all set.

Now I have to buy them before Carmel does so I can say that she is copying me.

- darren

 

[Quack]

REI carries a lot of soft mountaineering boots on the West coast and can ship them East for you to try on, free of charge. At least that's what I was told at the store in Hingham.

 

[Rob S]

For anyone looking to buy Grivel crampons, THIS SITE has very good prices. Click on the link for Crampons. When the Crampons page loads, if the prices are not shown in US dollars, you can easily change it with the menu on the upper right.

Rob

 

[HAMTERO]

Grivel makes a flexible bar that is better for walking if you have a soft boot.

 

[LivesToHike]

Strap-ons so far. Hinged vs non-hinged?

I have two pairs of strap-on crampons. One pair of Charlet-Moser ones that I picked up at LL Bean for about $47. The anti-snowballing plates are a pain to remove and install, however, and I only use them as loaners for others or as a backup pair. The other pair, Petzel 10-point strap-on glacier crampons, I've used on both my soft boots, and my plastic boots without much trouble. Perhaps, aside from straps occasionally loosening when my frozen fingers hasten a sloppy installation.

I was surprised by how a soft-soled boot (my preference for hiking) can put undue stress on a crampon by flexing and torquing it ways, perhaps not intended, leading, as I've witnessed, to field failures. Not an endearing thought on a long, icy trail. Hinged models seem to help, but gather even hinges might not help if the boot flexes not across the hinge. Any opinions?

I've wondered about strap-on crampons and witnessed others successfully using them. Eventually I'll try them out.

-- LTH

 

[Bluethroatedone]

Don't get straps if you think you may use them for Ice climbing or any significant front-pointing. My wife had a tough day with her Grivel straps as it was comming way off the heel when front pointing...she cranked the straps but didn't stay anywhwere as stable as my Sabretooths.

 

[pilgrim]

These are the crampons that I've been using for well over 10 years. From experience, I can say that strapping them on in the cold is neither fun nor fast. I defy anyone to put them on with gloves on.

Thanks, darren. Your crampons look a lot like mine, and I agree 100%. They are the reason that I turned back yesterday when conditions got icy on my way to the summit of Mt. Pierce. I asked myself, "Do I really want to deal with those things?" And the answer was "No way, call it a day."

And thanks to everyone else who has responded to this thread. I need to upgrade this year.

 

[DougPaul]

Don't get straps if you think you may use them for Ice climbing or any significant front-pointing. My wife had a tough day with her Grivel straps as it was comming way off the heel when front pointing...she cranked the straps but didn't stay anywhwere as stable as my Sabretooths.

I used to ice climb with straps. Never had any problem with them staying on--French technique (flatfooting) or Austrian technique (front pointing). Every now and then, I heard reports of step-ins falling off...

My general understanding is that step-ins were easier to put on and take off, but were also more likely to fall off.

The key item is less which system you use, but how well it is fitted to your boots. (Except that step-ins require boots designed for them. Straps should work with any crampon-appropriate boot.)

Doug

 

[JohnL]

I'm totally with Doug on this one. Climbers were front pointing with strapped crampons for decades before the advent of step in crampons. Problems with strapped crampons usually came from poor fitting or poor lacing technique as opposed to mechanical failure.

JohnL

 

[Oldsmores]

...Every now and then, I heard reports of step-ins falling off...

Anecdotal evidence only: I have had step-ins come off (not a fun prospect on a 50° slope ), but NEVER had my strap-ons come off. Of course, the step-ins and boots I was using them on were both rentals, so there may have been a fit or compatibility issue.

 

[linehant]

Golly... this thread is still running?

Anecdotal evidence only: I have had step-ins come off (not a fun prospect on a 50° slope :

I too have had step-ins pop off at "inopportune" times - such as when leading a pitch of 3+ ice, for example. And climbing partners have popped step-ins while on steep-ish snow climbs.

It's not a "regular" thing, of course, but it happens with enough frequency that, were I purchasing new *mountaineering* crampons today, I would opt for a "newmatic" or "new classic" style of crampon that uses some sort of strap arrangement at the toe and a lever/bail at the heel. This is particularly true if they were to be used with leather boots, the soles of which tend to become more flexible as the boots age.

For steep ice, where precise foot/crampon placement can be critical, the full step in - bails at both toe and heel - feel more secure. Just have to be careful about keeping the heel counter and toe groove of the boot free of ice and debris, and be mindful that normal wear-and-tear at the toe-bail groove can make it easier for the crampon bail to be "levered out" in a torquey kind of foot placement (which, to my thinking, includes french-technique).

I'm still a big fan of full strap crampons - but the CM S12 style of strap, not the engineering puzzle style strap arrangement of Darren's crampons (I can understand why he thinks straps are a bad idea). Those are reliable, secure... climb well (I use them on grade 3 / 3+ ice when there is a sizeable approach or some rock to be scrambled).... and no longer in production.

 

[pilgrim]

...I need to upgrade this year.

Being thoroughly fed up with the crappy crampons I now own, and anticipating potentially icy conditions at higher elevations for at least another month, I'm not waiting; I'm upgrading now. So I'm resurrecting this thread with a simple and specific question.

My old Columbia Bugabootoos might not be the best winter boots in the world, but they fit, and they're comfortable, which means a lot with hard-to-fit feet like mine. The Grivel New-Matic binding system looks good and has been endorsed here. Will it work with my boots, or should I get the New Classic?

 

[bill bowden]

Crampon bindings

The Bugaboo is a flexible boot and you therefor eneed the New-classic bindings

 

[Mike P.]

The Mew-Matics have a back bail that will not fit the Columbia's the new classics have plastic heel & toe baskets with just one strap. It's much easier than the straps of old.

 

[una_dogger]

Fwiw

La Sportiva makes another Makalu?

I have a pair of La Sportiva Makalus and they've served me well. They are stiff and take some real break in time.

Also, I'm renting some crampons from EMS -- ten point Black Diamond strap ons; so there is another option if you have an EMS nearby.

The cost is $10 a weekend, and you have the option to buy at deep discount afterward.

Sabrina

 

[bobmak]

I am once again dating myself here, but I have a pair of 12 pt. GAB Rotoflex crampons (these are the style with the spring wound screw thread joining the toe and heel sections together) that I bought sometime in the early 90's. They have been used for both hiking and climbing, and fit both my Scarpa Invernos and my leather Lowa hiking boots, and don't remember ever having a problem with them coming off. I would have to imagine that the design has advanced enough in the last 10-15 years to make step-ins even more reliable. Before that I had some nasty strap on things that were a total pain to deal with.