Dachstein Wool Products

[DayTrip]

I've read quite a few articles about Dachstein wool over the past year or so (prompted by a recommendation on Section Hiker) and from what I gather it is really warm stuff. I seem to recall some posts on here though mentioning that the US version (or perhaps the product in general) was not what it used to be back in the day and did not perform as well (TEO possibly??). It's time for my annual "fix my cold feet" battle and I was thinking of giving these a shot. Amazon appears to have their full line of socks, hats and mittens.

So I'm curious for feedback on the brand:

1) Is it still made with the same quality as it was "back in the day"? A lot of the brands I've learned about here on VFTT predate my hiking experience, and in many cases, my actually being alive.
2) For those who use it (or have used it) how would you say it compares to Darn Tough Socks or Smartwool or other popular brands, i.e. warmth, longevity, etc?
3) Is it prohibitively thick versus other types of socks? I have a really hard time finding boots that fit my feet right and sometimes the type of sock I go with affects the fit (pinches foot, wrinkles, etc). Would I have to size up on my boots to use these?
4) Would it be beneficial to use a liner sock with them? They look "rougher" texture-wise versus the typical Darn Tough sock (which is my go to for pretty much everything). Does that promote folds or wrinkles that would lead to foot issues with a lot of walking versus standing around in them? I'm definitely considering these for hiking, no hanging around in camp.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[TEO]

I've read quite a few articles about Dachstein wool over the past year or so (prompted by a recommendation on Section Hiker) and from what I gather it is really warm stuff. I seem to recall some posts on here though mentioning that the US version (or perhaps the product in general) was not what it used to be back in the day and did not perform as well (TEO possibly??). It's time for my annual "fix my cold feet" battle and I was thinking of giving these a shot. Amazon appears to have their full line of socks, hats and mittens.

So I'm curious for feedback on the brand:

1) Is it still made with the same quality as it was "back in the day"? A lot of the brands I've learned about here on VFTT predate my hiking experience, and in many cases, my actually being alive.
2) For those who use it (or have used it) how would you say it compares to Darn Tough Socks or Smartwool or other popular brands, i.e. warmth, longevity, etc?
3) Is it prohibitively thick versus other types of socks? I have a really hard time finding boots that fit my feet right and sometimes the type of sock I go with affects the fit (pinches foot, wrinkles, etc). Would I have to size up on my boots to use these?
4) Would it be beneficial to use a liner sock with them? They look "rougher" texture-wise versus the typical Darn Tough sock (which is my go to for pretty much everything). Does that promote folds or wrinkles that would lead to foot issues with a lot of walking versus standing around in them? I'm definitely considering these for hiking, no hanging around in camp.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

MITTENS: I have some experience with Dachstein wool mittens. My first two pairs were purchased from Climb High, and were the legendary, super-dense, felted wool. I am not sure which brand Climb High imported. Later, I picked up a pair or two from another defunct seller, Sweaters International, who imported the Heratex brand mittens. I'm pretty sure that the Sweater Chalet also imports the Heratex brand.

While the Heratex brand is a genuine Dachstein mitten, the felting is much less than that of the older mittens from Climb High. This means that the Heratex brand lacks the windproofing and aren't as warm. (I have the Heratex 4-ply, "extreme warm" mitten. They also make a lighter weight 3-ply mitten.) However, all is not lost! It turns out that the Vaude brand sells a Dachstein "Himalaya" mitten that is heavily-felted like the old Climb High mittens. It may even be the same brand that Climb High imported. This is the mitten to get. The one downside is that, to my knowledge, no one imports them to North America, so you have to purchase them from a European source that will ship them here.

SOCKS: I have not used Dachstein socks, but years ago used ragg wool with liner socks for hiking. Heratex makes both 3-py and 4-ply Dachstein wool socks, and while the lack of windproofness shouldn't be a drawback in socks, I wouldn't recommend them. Instead, if you haven't already, consider the Darn Tough "mountaineering" sock, which is significantly denser and thicker than their standard "hiker" sock. They are much softer than Dachstein boiled wool and with strategically placed elastic stretch, will fit better. If you go with a Dachstein sock, you should probably wear liner socks, too.

 

[KRooney]

Many years ago I used to instruct for the NH AMC's Winter Hiking series, and being a Vermonter was a regular customer of Climb High who at the time was on Shelburne Rd, just south of Burlington on US7. I became friends with the fellow was ordered some of their clothing, and he explained to me that Dachstein wasn't a brand so much as it was a cottage industry in an area of Austria where the Dachstein Mtns are located. The mittens and socks were made of boiled wool by families. They're now available on Amazon, and they're not cheap. However, I doubt you could wear them out! They bear no resemblance to Darn Tough socks, which is a fine sock in it's own rights.

My advice is to buy a pair, and if they don't fit properly Amazon has a good return policy. You won't need multiple pairs as they are virtually indestructible.

 

[sierra]

While they might still have some value performance wise, I think modern technology and socks out performance them. They are heavy and itchy, you would need silk liner socks to be comfortable.

 

[DayTrip]

. Instead, if you haven't already, consider the Darn Tough "mountaineering" sock, which is significantly denser and thicker than their standard "hiker" sock.

This is my current Winter sock and I don't mind them overall. I generally don't like a thick sock because, at least for me, I feel like they sometimes bunch and wrinkle more than a thinner sock. The obvious downside to the thinner sock is they aren't as warm. I apparently have mis-shapen clubs for feet so I also struggle with footwear, especially Winter stuff which tends to be more rigid and inflexible versus trail runners.

 

[DayTrip]

and he explained to me that Dachstein wasn't a brand so much as it was a cottage industry in an area of Austria where the Dachstein Mtns are located. The mittens and socks were made of boiled wool by families.

That explains a lot. I initially thought it was a brand and was getting a bit confused searching for them. I guess the "100% boiled wool from Austria" is Dachstein. Thanks.

 

[TEO]

I became friends with the fellow was ordered some of their clothing, and he explained to me that Dachstein wasn't a brand so much as it was a cottage industry in an area of Austria where the Dachstein Mtns are located. The mittens and socks were made of boiled wool by families. They're now available on Amazon, and they're not cheap. However, I doubt you could wear them out!

That is correct, Dachstein wool mittens and other clothing are not from a single brand, they are simply simply made in the area around the Dachstein mountains. I think they're mostly or all made in Styria. What I don't know is how much of the clothing manufacturing is still done by families and how much has been industrialized.

Vaude is a German company that sells a superior version of the Dachstein mitten. (It can only be called "Dachstein" if it is made there.) Heratex is a Styrian company that makes an inferior version of Dachstein Mitten. (They are well made, they just aren't felted as much.)

The well made as they are, you can definitely wear out Dachstein cloth, though it may take a while.

 

[TEO]

I guess the "100% boiled wool from Austria" is Dachstein. Thanks.

No. The article of clothing has to be made in the Dachstein region to be called Dachstein. Technically anything made in Dachstein can be called by that name. And again, not all 100% boiled wool from Dachstein is the same.

The mitten on the left is that sold by Vaude, the mitten on the left is the Heratex brand. The difference may look subtle, but it is significant.

 

[skiguy]

Many years ago I used to instruct for the NH AMC's Winter Hiking series, and being a Vermonter was a regular customer of Climb High who at the time was on Shelburne Rd, just south of Burlington on US7. I became friends with the fellow was ordered some of their clothing, and he explained to me that Dachstein wasn't a brand so much as it was a cottage industry in an area of Austria where the Dachstein Mtns are located. The mittens and socks were made of boiled wool by families. They're now available on Amazon, and they're not cheap. However, I doubt you could wear them out! They bear no resemblance to Darn Tough socks, which is a fine sock in it's own rights.

My advice is to buy a pair, and if they don't fit properly Amazon has a good return policy. You won't need multiple pairs as they are virtually indestructible.

To each his own. Dachstein in their day were widely used and still probably are useful in certain applications but for hiking and climbing that ship sailed long ago for me. Even when they were in and popular the dam stuff was stiff, itchy and a far cry from being ergonomic. As far as socks Darn Tough compared to Dachsteins is like driving a Ferrari compared to a VW Beetle.

 

[KRooney]

Darn Tough compared to Dachsteins is like driving a Ferrari compared to a VW Beetle.

Darn Tough is a relatively new brand.

And not to get too afield - if people are searching for cold-weather gear, they should check out Canada's MEC. They only have a few stores, but they have a good catalog. They even have their own line of clothing. I think of them as the REI of Canada.

 

[Andrew]

In my teens in the mid-1980's, I purchased from Cabelas both of their Dachstein offerings of mitts and socks. The mitts lived up to all expectations for warmth and an adequate shell for over 2 years of constant (youthful) use. They eventually thinned out at pressure points and wore through, as I lived outside during winter while mountain biking/climbing/hiking/sledding/whatever work of the day. I would guess around 1990 I thought to replace them and purchased new mitts from Campmor that I do remember were advertised as Climb High and were more affordable. These were not nearly as dense as my originals, and I actually preferred patching the palms on my old mitts w/ ragg wool sock pieces and continued on with the old ones until useless. The newer ones I still have in very nice shape, as they spend most time in packs as mitts of last resort.

The original socks were nice for a time but sweaty from the dense weave. I do very much remember that they quickly packed out and thinned at pressure areas, so would get cold and clammy with reduced loft and did wear through those areas. I think you would do better for your feet with a loftier weave wool blend sock as opposed to any advantages you might gain from a denser weave wool for that area. Last time I was at Ragged Mountain I bought some random discounted expedition high wool percentage blend socks from the basement area that I would rate warmer than my Dachstein experience, there are plenty of similar offering out there. Some of the best I see nowadays are actually at local/county fairs and farmers markets with great quality weaving and all kinds of unique blends like alpaca.

Now if you hike/live all winter in some kind of super-sandal, go with the Dachsteins.

 

[TEO]

Darn Tough is a relatively new brand.

Perhaps, but Cabot Hoisery, the maker of Darn Tough socks, has been making socks since 1978. Its Darn Tough brand has been around for twenty years now.

On the subject of socks and mittens, vapor barriers should not be overlooked. SectionHiker's Reynolds "large" oven bags have worked well for my feet and me. Some use a liner sock as the next-to-skin layer, I do not. Using medical exam gloves as a vapor barrier for my hands allows me to wear warmer insulation and not worry about the cooling affect of wet mittens later in the day.

 

[KRooney]

Perhaps, but Cabot Hoisery, the maker of Darn Tough socks, has been making socks since 1978. Its Darn Tough brand has been around for twenty years now.

Everything's relative. I grew up in the 60's, a few miles from Northfield, and graduated from college in 1970.

 

[B the Hiker]

I know this was specifically about Dachstein mitten, and this may be going afield, but several folks I know now are using a Japanese fishermen's glove. Thick rubber exterior that appears fur lined. So you have a glove and not a mitten. I have been using various mitten combinations for decades, but they do make it difficult to manipulate anything. I think my next purchase might be those gloves.

Alas, I didn't catch the brand.

 

[skiguy]

I know this was specifically about Dachstein mitten, and this may be going afield, but several folks I know now are using a Japanese fishermen's glove. Thick rubber exterior that appears fur lined. So you have a glove and not a mitten. I have been using various mitten combinations for decades, but they do make it difficult to manipulate anything. I think my next purchase might be those gloves.

Alas, I didn't catch the brand.

I could be wrong but sounds unbreathable and clammy.

 

[DayTrip]

I know this was specifically about Dachstein mitten, and this may be going afield, but several folks I know now are using a Japanese fishermen's glove. Thick rubber exterior that appears fur lined. So you have a glove and not a mitten. I have been using various mitten combinations for decades, but they do make it difficult to manipulate anything. I think my next purchase might be those gloves.

Alas, I didn't catch the brand.

Andrew Skurka highly recommends a brand of glove like this whose brand I also can't recall. I think it was SHOWA (I had it bookmarked at one point but availability was on and off and I never purchased. This was awhile ago. May be different now).

I've tried a variety of water proof gloves from Seal Skinz, ice climbing gloves from BD on clearance, and others and I just find them too thick. I find almost all tasks are just too big of a pain in the ass for any thick glove or mitten and I'm taking off whatever I'm wearing anyway to do stuff. Over the past few years I've transitioned to mittens with a thin liner glove underneath. Way warmer and there easier to take on and off.

 

[DayTrip]

I could be wrong but sounds unbreathable and clammy.

That hasn't been my experience of the waterproof gloves I've tried but I've only attempted to use them when it is very cold and wet. I basically wanted them for the ascents where you were handling snow covered branches and what not and then swap out of them to a dry pair at tree line or when the bulk of the "wet work" is over. Or in the pouring rain when I do my horrible weather prep hikes. I switched to a shell over mitt for the weight savings and simplicity.

 

[skiguy]

That hasn't been my experience of the waterproof gloves I've tried but I've only attempted to use them when it is very cold and wet. I basically wanted them for the ascents where you were handling snow covered branches and what not and then swap out of them to a dry pair at tree line or when the bulk of the "wet work" is over. Or in the pouring rain when I do my horrible weather prep hikes. I switched to a shell over mitt for the weight savings and simplicity.

Guess I’ll have to give it a try then. Can you recommend a particular brand? How wet do the liners get when your hands perspire? How do you dry them out?

 

[TCD]

Showa is the brand, as mentioned upthread. I have a couple pairs. They run small; I have a medium hand, and I wear XL in the Showa. They are VERY dexterous; almost too dexterous for climbing (you tend to drop things like screws not because they "slip" out of your hand, but because the glove almost "sticks" to them). They look like a heavy rubber glove for working with chemicals, but they are in fact breathable.

I have Raynaud's, so I am not a good case study for the "warmth" of any handwear. But they seem pretty warm for me in moderate winter. If it's really cold I have to wear mittens. (And no liner gloves for me; they are all too tight. They squeeze the fingers, the circulation immediately shuts down, and my fingers freeze. I wear a big baggy mitt with lots of room, and I'm much warmer without liners than with them.) If I'm climbing on a cold day, I can wear the Showas for a pitch, but then its out of them and into the big mitts for belay. And always chemical heaters, starting in November.

The Showas are fleece lined, so if they get wet inside getting them on and off can be a bit of a pain.

A real plus is that they are very cheap. Try them; if you don't like them for sports you can use them for yard work.

I get mine at Go2Marine: https://www.go2marine.com/showa-282-temres-gloves

 

[skiguy]

Showa is the brand, as mentioned upthread. I have a couple pairs. They run small; I have a medium hand, and I wear XL in the Showa. They are VERY dexterous; almost too dexterous for climbing (you tend to drop things like screws not because they "slip" out of your hand, but because the glove almost "sticks" to them). They look like a heavy rubber glove for working with chemicals, but they are in fact breathable.

I have Raynaud's, so I am not a good case study for the "warmth" of any handwear. But they seem pretty warm for me in moderate winter. If it's really cold I have to wear mittens. (And no liner gloves for me; they are all too tight. They squeeze the fingers, the circulation immediately shuts down, and my fingers freeze. I wear a big baggy mitt with lots of room, and I'm much warmer without liners than with them.) If I'm climbing on a cold day, I can wear the Showas for a pitch, but then its out of them and into the big mitts for belay. And always chemical heaters, starting in November.

The Showas are fleece lined, so if they get wet inside getting them on and off can be a bit of a pain.

A real plus is that they are very cheap. Try them; if you don't like them for sports you can use them for yard work.

I get mine at Go2Marine: https://www.go2marine.com/showa-282-temres-gloves

Great info. Interesting they are breathable yet so waterproof. The breathable part or lack there of is what had me skepticle.