Death, Judgement and Empathy on Franconia Ridge

[ChrisB]

Here's an article discussing our collective response to the recent death of Emily Sotelo.

It offers up interesting reading and some good food for thought.

Not surprisingly, the author is a woman. The generally more empathetic version of our species.

What do you think, all you accident analyzers out there?

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Here's an article discussing our collective response to the recent death of Emily Sotelo.

It offers up interesting reading and some good food for thought.

Not surprisingly, the author is a woman. The generally more empathetic version of our species.

What do you think, all you accident analyzers out there?

I think that Maggie nailed it on the head; thanks for posting link here.

Those of us in the SAR community invariably share Maggie’s views on compassion. We commonly converse with our litter-carry patients about how their broken ankle or twisted knee could have been easily one of our own, even when some of us are suspicious that our injured person slid out of control while butt-sliding the steeps when their crampons or microspikes caught a root or whatever.

 

[skiguy]

IMO it entirely possible to be empathetic in these situations while also being analytical from a learning stand point. I also agree that people rationalize that this is not going to happen to me. But also there are people whom learn from these situations and apply that knowledge without rationalizing. I agree mostly with the author but IMO she misses some other points that are relevant.

 

[sierra]

I read the article and to be honest, I not only did not find it thought provoking, but I also didn't really agree with the premise. The death is question was met with kid gloves in most groups and even the people that pointed out her obvious mistakes, were not that hard on her. I think it's a very worthy endeavor to discuss such a death and hopefully some will learn from it. I do not see the harm in pointing out what someone did wrong and yes, she did a lot wrong. There have been other cases where people were a bit harsh, but that is the norm for social media, it will not change and if you use the platform, you just need to filter what you find disagreeable.

 

[DayTrip]

I read the article and to be honest, I not only did not find it thought provoking, but I also didn't really agree with the premise. The death is question was met with kid gloves in most groups and even the people that pointed out her obvious mistakes, were not that hard on her. I think it's a very worthy endeavor to discuss such a death and hopefully some will learn from it. I do not see the harm in pointing out what someone did wrong and yes, she did a lot wrong. There have been other cases where people were a bit harsh, but that is the norm for social media, it will not change and if you use the platform, you just need to filter what you find disagreeable.

I had the same/similar take. Of course it always sucks when someone dies no matter what the circumstances. But in many of these cases there are some serious errors in judgement by the person that go beyond needing specialized knowledge and a stubborn sense of accomplishing something which is not all that important in the grand scheme of things. I don't see any issue at all with pointing out the obvious in a respectful or tactful way. I mean that ultimately is why a lot of people die. They push on when they know deep inside they're making a huge mistake but just can't stop themselves.

 

[Grey J]

"Did an angel whisper in your ear? And hold you close, and take away your fear? In that long last moment."
Lake Charles by Lucinda Williams

 

[dug]

Great article.

Every time there is a tragedy in these mountains (or anywhere), it's an opportunity for some to list their resume and why they would never be in that situation. I just generally stopped reading some as I know the content before I read the first word.

 

[OldEric]

Great article.

Every time there is a tragedy in these mountains (or anywhere), it's an opportunity for some to list their resume and why they would never be in that situation. I just generally stopped reading some as I know the content before I read the first word.

Bingo - every one is behaving as expected

 

[Mike P.]

It's a good article and I agree her Dad was quick to point out Emily's first-person emotion and any others who have dies due to exposure. Analyzing accidents and mistakes is one way of learning. From drivers' education videos with horrific crashes and why you shouldn't drive intoxicated to learning from failed dam and building projects. Some lessons can't be learned first-hand as they are too fatal. (I'm happy someone else learned about pouring gasoline on a raging fire or drinking 12 beers and then an hour later auto racing are examples of really bad ideas.)

I did see the author seems to say that GPS is a necessary thing to bring. There were winter ascents in NH, the ADK, CA, AK and all over the world before All-Trails and affordable, accurate, handheld GPS, wasn't there? We mustn't lose the human element is any of these tragedies, regardless of what anyone failed to bring. Yes, the rocks and streams and weather don't care, we need to.

 

[sierra]

It's a good article and I agree her Dad was quick to point out Emily's first-person emotion and any others who have dies due to exposure. Analyzing accidents and mistakes is one way of learning. From drivers' education videos with horrific crashes and why you shouldn't drive intoxicated to learning from failed dam and building projects. Some lessons can't be learned first-hand as they are too fatal. (I'm happy someone else learned about pouring gasoline on a raging fire or drinking 12 beers and then an hour later auto racing are examples of really bad ideas.)

I did see the author seems to say that GPS is a necessary thing to bring. There were winter ascents in NH, the ADK, CA, AK and all over the world before All-Trails and affordable, accurate, handheld GPS, wasn't there? We mustn't lose the human element is any of these tragedies, regardless of what anyone failed to bring. Yes, the rocks and streams and weather don't care, we need to.

The author stated that some commenters from other groups suggested that a GPS should be brought. Personally, not only do I not think a GPS is necessary, but I have also never even held one. It's just a tool, not unlike a map or compass, one, some or all can be used based on one's individual preference.

 

[Grey J]

The 10 essentials, GPS, Trail Stewards, permitting, mandatory training, hiking in pairs . . . what other safety suggestions are to come? How about chairlfts to carry "hikers" to all the summits to avoid all possible risk? But what if the chairlifts break down? Chairlift mechanics will be stationed at intervals along the route! Helicopters will fly back and forth along the ridge lines to pluck off crazy fools who venture out from the summit stations unaware of the danger. The desire on the part of some to make hiking and peak bagging a risk-free endeavor is a fool's errand.

 

[skiguy]

The 10 essentials, GPS, Trail Stewards, permitting, mandatory training, hiking in pairs . . . what other safety suggestions are to come? How about chairlfts to carry "hikers" to all the summits to avoid all possible risk? But what if the chairlifts break down? Chairlift mechanics will be stationed at intervals along the route! Helicopters will fly back and forth along the ridge lines to pluck off crazy fools who venture out from the summit stations unaware of the danger. The desire on the part of some to make hiking and peak bagging a risk-free endeavor is a fool's errand.

Don't need any of that stuff. You too can be a "Bad Ass" without ever leaving your house. Best part of this is it will cut way down on hiker/climber traffic and thence trail impact.

https://youtu.be/xAYuh4NQVeE

 

[hikerbrian]

Not surprisingly, the author is a woman. The generally more empathetic version of our species.

What do you think, all you accident analyzers out there?

I think the tired and inaccurate stereotype about women and empathy doesn't add anything to anything. Unironically, it's the author's dad whose empathy breaks the author out of her own cold disinterest.

From the article:

It wasn’t until I sent the article to my father in New Hampshire that I actually had to think about the tragedy with something other than surface-level consideration. My dad, big-hearted and unabashed with his feelings, responded “That poor girl. She must have been so scared.”

His simple, sincere message felt like a gut punch.

 

[pedxing]

Absolutely - empathy is essential, but so is preventing further tragedy. I felt for Emily and her mother from the moment I first saw the missing hiker notices and shared them. All of us make mistakes in our lifetime, very few of them have such tragic consequences or such broad exposure. The social media discussion sites are frequented by newbies and pointing to the mistakes that cost a hiker's life can protect others from making the same mistakes. I feel a strong responsibility to model a thoughtful empathic response to tragedy, but also to use this and other tragedies and near tragedies to teach. Emily was involved with Facebook hiking groups and I can't shake the idea that the next Emily could be in one of my groups. So, like Skiguy and Mike P, I try to analyze tragedies in a way that is empathic but also educational to me and to others. I've learned a lot over the years from the debriefings of disasters and near disasters that I have seen on VFTT, the Appalachia journal and many other places and am grateful for the information provided.

 

[Yury]

I not only did not find it thought provoking, but I also didn't really agree with the premise.

To me this article looks like a typical thought police post telling people how to feel, how to think and how to post.
When dealing with such stories on social media, primarily I am trying to understand what went wrong in a particular situation, how would I behave in similar circumstances and what should I do better to survive.

Especially irritating for me are countless "thoughts and prayers" comments on Facebook that often make it practically impossible to understand what has actually happened.
BTW, were specific places where she has left the trail and where her body has been found, already shared on the Internet?
Was it somewhere near Greenleaf Hut?

 

[peakbagger]

As far as I have seen there has been no real publicly detailed analysis of the accident. I expect F&G has one created one, but it is not published or available. I expect it saves them having to deal with grieving family one more time when published. Eventually AMC may do their own and publish in Appalachia.

What is publicly available that I have seen is that during a later part of the multiday search, clothing belonging to the hiker was found somewhere and followed to a point somewhere off the Greenleaf trail in the Lafayette Brook drainage. That is pretty broad as it covers a large area of the drainage from the summit down to where the trail slabs out of the drainage and towards the parkway. From a recovery point of view, the lower Greenleaf trail would be used to access the now deceased hiker as its far more sheltered route that does not need to ascend back up towards the hut fro the carry.

 

[JoshandBaron]

Reports indicated she was found at the headwaters of Lafayette Brook and airlifted out.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

The public record was posted at the NHF&G website on 11/23/2022. On late Tuesday afternoon “…….tracks and items belonging to Sotelo were located at the headwaters of Lafayette Brook.” Sotelo was located at 11:15 the next morning and extracted by a NHARNG Blackhawk.

Some of us in the SAR community obviously know the exact elevation and coordinates where Sotelo was recovered, but that does not clarify whether she lost the Greenleaf Trail on the way up or on the way down. Many of us, including several who posted on the earlier VftT thread, think that she lost the trail in retreat on the way down the summit cone in white out conditions that were documented for about an hour in the Notch on Sunday morning. But, we will never know from the information that we have exactly what happened.

 

[WhiteMountainsThunder]

"Did an angel whisper in your ear? And hold you close, and take away your fear? In that long last moment."
Lake Charles by Lucinda Williams

Exactly. I am guilty of the same behavior. Only now at almost 70 has it occurred to me that just because my biological age is significantly less than my chronological one, doesn’t mean I can’t get hurt or die from bad decisions. The drive to succeed is very strong in those young enough to not consider their infallibility as well as the older who think by virtue of experience, they won’t get into deep weeds. A sobering thought I say often: rescuers can die too. It’s not only you your choice affects.

 

[ballisticbam_b]

Author writes -“ I had gotten into the same situation as her before—lost and in the middle of worsening weather. But I had always returned with nothing more than a tale of stumbling around in the woods for longer than I would have liked.”
NO ONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THAT SITUATION WOULD DESCRIBE THAT AS THAT.
Even myself who has a sick sense of humor, dark and often directed at myself, I had to think, that was a very annoying statement from this author.
People who survive…even if you remain calm and collected, that experience itself is still very scary and traumatizing to be there…
Unless laughing at the bar with the boys? “Spent a little too much time out there…” what on earth