Do rangers hate VFTT?

[mavs00]

........ I'm from the ADKforum or better yet, from Adkhighpeaks.com.

And will likely get a "what the heck is that" (at least in my case).

Doc, As always thanks for the info, that's great stuff I never knew.

 

[ken]

One was a young lady who I met on the summit of Wright peak who was very personable and knowledgable. She assisted me in berating my hiking companion for not having the proper gear and even hiked with us to the junction of the Wright/Algonquin trail. Very nice encounter. The other was not as positive, but I won't glorify that situation.

As a side note - Doc, I wonder if it wasn't a ranger on Wright. I thought that stewards were only sent up to Algonquin , Marcy and occasionally Colden. I know I've run into rangers on Marshall (on the Herbert Brook herpath no less), Big Slide and a couple others, so I just ASSumed they were "peakbaggers" like the rest of us.

She was, I believe, an "associate" forest ranger, or some other word that starts with "A." (I don't remember...Junior? No, that doesn't start with "A...") She told me that she wasn't a full fledged ranger, and I know that she wasn't a summit steward.

it isnt too hard to tell who it was, as of this year here is what they were observed wearing:

forest rangers wear a black dome shaped shoulder patch on the left with "forest ranger" & a pine tree in the middle on one arm, and a triangular (with curved sides) shaped black patch with "forest ranger division" & the DEC logo on the other, and are armed.

assistant rangers used to wear the "pine tree" patch... now i see them wearing a round white patch with the DEC logo on the left arm and the same triangular (with curved sides) shaped black patch with "forest ranger division" & DEC logo on the other arm... and do not have guns (so you either have to look at the left arm or for the gun)

summit stewards wear a green "nature conservancy" patch with an oak leaf in the center - i have also seen "ADK" patches worn along with the nature conservancy patch (and they don't wear guns).

 

[Guinness]

No, they don’t hate VfTT’ers, they just hate you…….

All kidding aside, I have had nothing but respect for their dedication. I have seen some hikers really give them a hard time when it was not deserved. In reality, the hiker was at fault and the rangers did their job. I have been on the end of receiving a warning for camping in too large a group. We put the rangers on the defensive. I have met rangers that have a natural “abrasive” personality and some that visited the lean-to and shared a drink and food. They are no different than you or I. Furthermore, I would trust them with my life for they often go beyond the job description to help or rescue us.

 

[snowshoe]

I am not a Ranger in the ADK but I am a Ranger for the NJ state park service. To answear your question No we dont hate VFTT people. You must have ran into one of those Rangers who have put too much time in and is burnt out. Most Rangers are there for everyone who wants to enjoy the outdoors and is always willing to help. Just dont be stupid.

A lot of people misunderstand on what is a true Park Ranger. Someone mentioned a Ranger is anyone who works for the the DEC. That is not true. In the NPS system there are two types of Rangers: Interpretive and law enforcement Rangers. Your interpretive Rangers are the ones giving educated talks and group lead hikes. The law enforcement Rangers are the ones who can issue tickets, make arrests as well as patrol the trails and roads. They tend to be the ones who do search and rescue and respond first to any problems in the backcountry or on the roads. NY and NJ State Rangers are the ones who drive in the vehicles that say DEC Police or in NJ were called State Ranger. We have full law enforcement abilities and we are the ones who do backcountry patrols as well as on the roads. They are the true Rangers. I have seen people refere to the caretakers at the State Campgrounds in NY as Rangers as well as maintainance workers. I also ran into someone who saw a marked car with DEC police and thought they where just cops and not Rangers.

 

[Puma concolor]

And for more information on the New York State Forest Rangers and the awesome job they do:

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/protection/rangers/

Also, as a point of clarification, in NY State, Rangers are a different entity from DEC Police. Obviously, they're both Encon, but DEC Police deal with a different set of issues ranging from hunters to industrial polluters. Rangers are the backcountry guys responsible for searches, fire management and enforcement of hiking and camping and forestry codes (among other things). DEC Police have Police Officer status; Rangers have Peace Officer status.

If he/she is driving a red pickup with DEC markings, it's a Ranger. If it's a green Crown Victoria police car with DEC markings, it's DEC Police.

 

[Remix]

Can't say much for Rangers, but the Bolton Landing police "have absolutely never heard of ANYONE going for a night hike". Not even with full hiking equipment, out of state plates, and a 8 LED Petzl Duo on my head....

Must be an interrogation tactic..but I do like to use Tongue Mtn as a "hotel" on Friday nights for further excursions up North.

 

[moose_mckenzie]

I deal with DEC frequently. I have never experienced any disdain for the hiking community. Often they works side by side, especially with SAR and trial maintainers.

Moose

 

[Mike P.]

If there is anything that they are weary about, I imagine it is regarding the fact that anyone can ask a question like, what are the current conidtions on Marcy or Washington?

We may reply, see trail conditions on VFTT & the latest report may say, typical late fall day in the mountains, did not use any special gear. Someone with no experinece & is used to walking around his CT neighborhood all winter & may only hike from Memorial Day through Labor Day & just found this sight (or Outdoors.org or Alpinezone.com, etc.) decides he is missing all the fun we have all year round & will take tomorrow off from work & hike.

The sights are valuable for getting updated info (I wonder at times how I did it before only relying on the ski mountain forecast or calling Ranger Stations) and for helping people with questions, it helps if the people giving information know a little bit about the person requesting it, experience, gear they have, what kind of trip they want, etc...

 

[Ned Kipperson]

If he/she is driving a red pickup with DEC markings, it's a Ranger. If it's a green Crown Victoria police car with DEC markings, it's DEC Police.

More clarification:
Actually, DEC Police mostly drive green 4x4 SUV's at this point. DEC Police also enforce the same backcountry regs the rangers do, plus all the Fish and Wildlife, wetland protection, stream protection, and water quality laws. Industrial pollution is mainly dealt with by engineers and US EPA. They are 'just cops' with statewide police authority like troopers, like Forest Rangers are 'just rangers'.

Snowshoe, DEC Police, aka Environmental Conservation Officers are akin to NJ Conservation Officers.

 

[ken]

They are 'just cops' with statewide police authority like troopers, like Forest Rangers

state troopers and encon police are trained as police officers as are county police/sheriff deputies, town police, village & city police, park police, port authority and transit etc.
forest rangers are trained peace officers as are correction officers, constables, court officers, probation officers, , bridge & tunnel officers, special police, campus police, ASPCA officers, auxiliary police, etc.

DEC Police, aka Environmental Conservation Officers

environmental conservation police were known as environmental conservation officers berore they received the police powers & training (they were trained as peace officers before that, maybe 8 years ago) - before we discovered pollution they were known as just "conservation officers" (and before that conservation law enforcement officer, game protector, game warden).

 

[peak_bgr]

Maybe the ones with the animosity towards VFTT are just jealous about the fact that we know more about the outdoors than they do.

 

[Guinness]

Maybe the ones with the animosity towards VFTT are just jealous about the fact that we know more about the outdoors than they do.

Hi peak_bgr - Ouch! You just made some DEC friends!

 

[Puma concolor]

Didn't mean to oversimplify there, Ned. I was just pointing out a few obvious differences.

For more about the DEC Police:

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dle/