Down/Primaloft Jacket

[DayTrip]

That's good news. I'm guessing you didn't get the jacket to fit over everything (including hardshell). Does it fit in your pack OK?

I wore over my hard shell, an expedition weight layer and a thin base layer. I tried at my house with a Primaloft layer in addition and it was pretty snug but still fit and zipped completely. I think I'm going to stay with it but if I did again I'd probably get the next size up. I still can't decide if it is the elasticized inner liner or just a bit small.

It does take a lot of space. I put in a vented compression sack and condensed fairly well. It seemed to puff up just fine when I took out. I carry a much bigger pack than most so the space is not a problem for me. I didn't want to over compress it.

 

[DayTrip]

I was all set to get the Patagonia DAS parka, but after seeing the reviews for the K-7, I'm not sure now about DAS parka. DAS users Primaloft verses down and it weighs a lot more then the K-7. Although the K-7 looks to cost a lot more. I've never owned down before. I'm also concerned that DAS parka will be bulky to fit in my pack verses down. I've owned so much Patagonia clothes over the years, I rarely deviate to other brands because of how long the Patagonia stuff last. Now I'm not sure.

Mountain Equipment had quite a few different models with varying fill weights, and a very high quality 93/7 down. I researched many other comparable jackets and the actual fill weight was far lower, even in some more expensive jackets like the MH Nilas. Obviously I just got and only used once but I'd say their jackets are worth a good look. Great features and seems to be a high quality product. I really like that elasticized liner and the way it eliminates air pockets in the coat. I like the hood fit to. It zips nicely to hide most of the face comfortably so you can tuck your face in out of the elements. Haven't tried with the full blown balaclava/goggle fit yet but I think it is going to be just fine.

 

[jfb]

I wore over my hard shell, an expedition weight layer and a thin base layer. I tried at my house with a Primaloft layer in addition and it was pretty snug but still fit and zipped completely. I think I'm going to stay with it but if I did again I'd probably get the next size up. I still can't decide if it is the elasticized inner liner or just a bit small.

Some folks recommend buying a larger size to fit over the hardshell. If I need my down jacket, I first remove whichever other shell I've been wearing. Either way works.

 

[sierra]

I never thought of wearing a jacket over my shell, I always remove my shell first. Interesting, why would you do that? just curious.

 

[jfb]

I never thought of wearing a jacket over my shell, I always remove my shell first. Interesting, why would you do that? just curious.

If you get to a spot where you have to put on or take off crampons or snowshoes (for example), and are just wearing a baselayer and hardshell (or windshell), you may wish to take a puffy jacket out of your pack and wear it over everything so you don't get too chilled. Then, take off the puffy to resume hiking.

I prefer to remove the shell, add a midlayer and put the shell back on and leave the puffy in my pack. I'd cool off somewhat, and resume hiking wearing the extra midlayer.

 

[DayTrip]

If you get to a spot where you have to put on or take off crampons or snowshoes (for example), and are just wearing a baselayer and hardshell (or windshell), you may wish to take a puffy jacket out of your pack and wear it over everything so you don't get too chilled. Then, take off the puffy to resume hiking.

I prefer to remove the shell, add a midlayer and put the shell back on and leave the puffy in my pack. I'd cool off somewhat, and resume hiking wearing the extra midlayer.

I don't normally break out the puffy until I'm at a destination like a summit or outlook when I know I'll be stopping for an extended period (more than 10 minutes). I'll sometimes leave it on for some of the descent if it is cold because I'm not generating as much heat as climbing. During ascent if I stop I'll generally mess with the layers under the shell.

I usually start with a thin base layer and hard shell and use the zippers, vents and hat to regulate my temp. When I can't stay warm enough zipped with a hat I'll stop and add a layer and start over messing with zippers and vents, hat, etc. The process of getting the puffy out of the stuff sack and on then packing back in, etc rarely seems worth it unless it is super cold. I usually just suck it up for the few minutes while I'm adjusting the layers. Whenever I stop I'll use a micro towel and wipe as much perspiration from my skin under the layers as possible to help avoid chilling.

 

[DougPaul]

I never thought of wearing a jacket over my shell, I always remove my shell first. Interesting, why would you do that? just curious.

Sometimes technical climbers will put a jacket over a shell at a belay because it is simpler and saves time. Like you, I normally put my jacket under my shell when hiking unless there is good reason to do otherwise.

If one plans on using one's jacket over one's shell (possibly in less than ideal conditions...) then weather tolerant fills become more desirable in spite of their increased weight.

Doug

 

[Darkmatter]

Personally I use a Patagonia Nano Air hooded jacket couples with the Patagonia R1 hoodie. Between those two I am plenty comfortable well into the teens. If its extra bad I just throw on my storm shell and I am good with just about anything. One of the best jackets I have ever purchased. Light weight, great for technical climbing as well as general hiking. Cant say enough good things about it really. As a last resort I carry a Mountain Hardware Kelvinator down jacket to toss over everything else if I know I will be standing around for long periods of time. This system has served me well.

 

[sierra]

Sometimes technical climbers will put a jacket over a shell at a belay because it is simpler and saves time. Like you, I normally put my jacket under my shell when hiking unless there is good reason to do otherwise.

If one plans on using one's jacket over one's shell (possibly in less than ideal conditions...) then weather tolerant fills become more desirable in spite of their increased weight.

Doug

Very good points. That is why I've never owned a Down jacket or Down sleeping bag, I'm scared to death they will get wet and I'm screwed. But man are they light, sometimes I put one on and feel the temptation. I guess bottom line, as a soloist, I stick with synthetic in case of an emergency, my fill will not fail.

 

[DayTrip]

Very good points. That is why I've never owned a Down jacket or Down sleeping bag, I'm scared to death they will get wet and I'm screwed. But man are they light, sometimes I put one on and feel the temptation. I guess bottom line, as a soloist, I stick with synthetic in case of an emergency, my fill will not fail.

I learned that lesson with my first jacket. Wet and useless as a layer when walking and it wasn't warm enough for stops. That was a good tip by jfb to obtain the manufacturer's spec for the fill weight of the jacket. The quality of the down is a big factor (650/750,850,etc) but how much of it is in the coat is very important depending on the use. Most of the jackets you see are for wearing in use and have far less fill weight than a "stopping" jacket. My old coat (850 downtek) had about 90g of fill weight and many of the jackets I was considering (higher end models by top brands) only had 100g to 150g of fill. The K7 I wound up getting had 330g of fill weight. Not surprisingly it was toasty warm the other night around 3-4 deg F with the wind chill, even after 60 minutes of standing around on South Peak. jfb's feature list at the beginning of this thread was spot on for the kind of jacket I was looking for (stops/extreme cold/emergency hunker downs).

I got a Primaloft jacket with pit vents for underneath as a layer two years ago and it performs well. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to get as damp when I'm exerting myself and I don't get that damp chill even when it does. (I have a bad habit of leaving too many layers on descending and overheating. I like being toasty warm after the cold of the summit, being above treeline,etc).

 

[DougPaul]

Very good points. That is why I've never owned a Down jacket or Down sleeping bag, I'm scared to death they will get wet and I'm screwed. But man are they light, sometimes I put one on and feel the temptation. I guess bottom line, as a soloist, I stick with synthetic in case of an emergency, my fill will not fail.

I carry enough fleece and/or light polyester jackets (worn under a hard shell) to deal with moisture when moving, but my emergency jacket is down and most of my sleeping bags are down. No problem so far... (Polyester fills have improved significantly since I bought my down...)

Recently (compared to my down gear ) I picked up a Blizzard bag as an emergency sleeping bag. Lighter and smaller than a regular sleeping bag and water resistant too.

Doug

 

[JustBob]

DougPaul, Are you carrying the Blizzard Bag in winter instead of a down bag?

 

[sierra]

One thing that has me considering down now, is the outer treatments have come so far. The odds of the fill getting wet, has gone down, ( Pun not intended ) then in earlier years.

 

[DougPaul]

DougPaul, Are you carrying the Blizzard Bag in winter instead of a down bag?

Not for camping--just as emergency equipment.

Doug

 

[jfb]

That is why I've never owned a Down jacket or Down sleeping bag, I'm scared to death they will get wet and I'm screwed.

I wore a down vest under a windshell when climbing Central Gully about 20 years ago and by the time I got back to the Harvard Cabin, the vest was soaked and useless. So I upgraded to a Puffball vest and wore that hiking under a windshell and it also got soaked but kept me warm. Next, I tried an Ibex wool vest under a windshell and that kept me warm and allowed the moisture to escape. Problem solved.

 

[sierra]

Today, I made my choice and went with Das Parka from Patagonia. I've owned alot of their clothes and just love the quality and performance.

 

[DayTrip]

Today, I made my choice and went with Das Parka from Patagonia. I've owned alot of their clothes and just love the quality and performance.

Just couldn't pull the trigger on a down coat eh? I'm sure it will do what you want and you clearly have a lot of confidence with Patagonia gear so you'll have peace of mind. I still haven't been able to get out there with mine again since my initial test. I wound up going with the Outdoor Research Iceline pants (from my other thread) vs the Patagonia model you suggested. Only used those once too, and on a day where I hardly needed them, but I seem to have found a good fit so that is encouraging based on past experiences.

Now I just have to snap out of my fall "funk" and drag my posterior into the woods! It's been hard to "answer the bell" lately with the 3AM alarm and the thought of the 3+ hour drive up . Twice in the past 3 weeks I had everything packed and ready to roll and when the alarm went off it was turned off. I drive a lot for work so sometimes I just don't want to be in the car. Good luck with the jacket.

 

[rup]

Anyone have any experience with Ibex which uses wool instead of down??

 

[sierra]

Just couldn't pull the trigger on a down coat eh? I'm sure it will do what you want and you clearly have a lot of confidence with Patagonia gear so you'll have peace of mind. I still haven't been able to get out there with mine again since my initial test. I wound up going with the Outdoor Research Iceline pants (from my other thread) vs the Patagonia model you suggested. Only used those once too, and on a day where I hardly needed them, but I seem to have found a good fit so that is encouraging based on past experiences.

Now I just have to snap out of my fall "funk" and drag my posterior into the woods! It's been hard to "answer the bell" lately with the 3AM alarm and the thought of the 3+ hour drive up . Twice in the past 3 weeks I had everything packed and ready to roll and when the alarm went off it was turned off. I drive a lot for work so sometimes I just don't want to be in the car. Good luck with the jacket.

Yes, In the end I stayed with synthetic material and Patagonia. I'll use the coat when it's really cold or at summit breaks, also want to get away from packing so many layers. I guess in the end, the idea of being a soloist and maybe relying on the jacket in a forced bivi, I don't want to worry about getting it wet. Plus, Patagonia has been my gear choice for 30 years, why change now.

 

[jfb]

Anyone have any experience with Ibex which uses wool instead of down??

I have experience with Ibex. I use wool when active and down when inactive.