Dulfersitz

[IndianChris]

Anyone use this rappelling method to get through some of the steeper, down-hill, icier sections in the mountains this winter?
With good rope, crampons and a helmet, it sounds do-able.

 

[Tito Alba]

I tried it last year once and (admittedly it was my first time) I decided to pursue something more stable. Found in a mountaineering book a description of a diaper sling made out of webbing and have been carrying it since. Just seemed safer.

 

[TCD]

Dulfersitz works. I've done a dulfersitz free rappel. Practice in a minimally hazardous location (like a snow hill with a smooth runout) is recommended first. Certainly agree that modern webbing belts or very light harnesses, coupled with a munter hitch or some lightweight rappel device, are more secure. The main reason today to learn the basic techniques like dulfersitz and hip belay are to be prepared in case you lose or drop your modern equipment. That's a good enough reason to learn, though, IMO...

 

[IndianChris]

Well, the Dulfersitz is definitely a good technique to have up your sleeve.

I ventured up Sugarloaf in the Catskills on Tuesday. Going up the Mink Hollow side of Sugarloaf was exciting but fortunately uneventful! Just about every step of the ascent was covered in ice. Saw a lot of butt-slide marks made by those descending into Mink Hollow - that must've been crazy Crampons were a necessity. A short staff or ice ax is key as well. Picked up a BD Raven...pretty good tool for Catskill-type mountaineering I guess. Interested to see how much more technical Trap Dike is this time of year.

Coming down into Pecoy Notch was where I used the Dulfersitz. Most of the descent was do-able without it but there was a 30 foot section that was ice all the way down...no steps, no good-enough food holds or handholds, or anything...pretty much a 30 foot slide down. Ascending that would've been a challenge. I used a large tree at the top to wrap the rope around and made it down no problem. The rope did hurt my inner leg with all my winter weight on it but maybe a thicker rope would've been better. Would like to put it into practice some more.

Will confess...I used 5mm rope. Not meant for climbing but since it has a tensile strength of +1000 lbs, I figured it to be ok. Wore a helmet too.

I'm going to attempt to insert a photo here of the section...

 

[Jay H]

I believe you would still be better off with the Muenter hitch and a carabiner (locking preferred) over the Dulfersitz. I'm no expert, but I read in I think (not Freedom of the Hills but another good mtn'ing book) that the Dulfersitz has design flaws in it.. I'd have to look up the reasoning... Plus, everybody for the most part has a 'biner..

Jay

 

[DougPaul]

I believe you would still be better off with the Muenter hitch and a carabiner (locking preferred) over the Dulfersitz. I'm no expert, but I read in I think (not Freedom of the Hills but another good mtn'ing book) that the Dulfersitz has design flaws in it.. I'd have to look up the reasoning... Plus, everybody for the most part has a 'biner..

Once upon a time, the Dulfersitz was the only rappel technique--it does work. It has the advantage that it requires no equipment beyond the rope, but it isn't as goof-proof as some of the other techniques.

The Muenter hitch generally requires a special pear (large opening) locking carabiner (the knot has to be able to pass through the biner), although one might be able to use a standard-sized biner for rappelling only. A biner brake or figure-8 might be better options.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Will confess...I used 5mm rope. Not meant for climbing but since it has a tensile strength of +1000 lbs, I figured it to be ok.

Might be a bit marginal for safety. 1000lbs when new, weaker when older or worn.

You also have to consider the possibility of shock loading...

Other factors to consider: if there is a knot in the system (sometimes required in rappelling), the strength goes down to 50-70%.

FWIW, the construction industry tends to use safety factors of 5-to-1--a lot of climbing gear is speced at 2-to-1 (ie a much slimmer safety margin).

Note 1: Rappeling is one of the more dangerous techniques in climbing--a significant percentage of climbing deaths are due to rapelling accidents. I suggest that you get training and practice with an independent belay before attempting it for real. It is fundamentally easy to do, but there are a variety of things that can go wrong... (This comment is not aimed at anyone in particular--just those without a climbing background.)

Note 2: back in the "olden days", climbers clothing sometimes had leather patches at the Dulfersitz pressure points--it isn't hard to wear a hole in your clothing doing it. Also one should avoid Dulfersitz rapelling or belaying with the rope against synthetic clothing--the heat from the friction can easily melt the fabric.

Doug

 

[Chip]

Well, the Dulfersitz is definitely a good technique to have up your sleeve.

I used a large tree at the top to wrap the rope around and made it down no problem. The rope did hurt my inner leg with all my winter weight on it but maybe a thicker rope would've been better.

Cool. Congrats. Always neat to learn and employ a new skill.

 

[Puma concolor]

Great example of working with what you have. Old school technique, thin rope, short sketchy section ... very nice.

 

[IndianChris]

Thanks guys...had a lot of fun with it.

And thanks for the pointers Doug...well taken. I made sure to bring my leather gloves in the event I used the Dulfersitz. They were much better than my normal winter snow gloves.

With this Muenter Hitch though...is one able to retrieve their gear after the descent as easy as it is with the Dulfersitz? With the Dulfersitz, you just pull your rope down from around the anchor to retrieve it. But with the Muenter...is your caribiner and rope left attached on top...unretrievable?

Thanks.

 

[DougPaul]

With this Muenter Hitch though...is one able to retrieve their gear after the descent as easy as it is with the Dulfersitz? With the Dulfersitz, you just pull your rope down from around the anchor to retrieve it. But with the Muenter...is your caribiner and rope left attached on top...unretrievable?

The Muenter Hitch is a braking knot used for belaying--I'm not sure how good it is as a rappel brake.

Think of it as a brake used in place of a rappelling device (eg figure-8 or carabiner brake). It has nothing to do with the configuration of the main rope.

Doug

 

[AMF]

I've used double rope technique with a muenter, so you can just do a pull-down afterwards. But if you've gone that far, its just as easy to carry a small belay/rappel device.

amf

 

[Jay H]

The Muenter Hitch is a braking knot used for belaying--I'm not sure how good it is as a rappel brake.

Think of it as a brake used in place of a rappelling device (eg figure-8 or carabiner brake). It has nothing to do with the configuration of the main rope.

Doug

Works fine as a rappel, we used it to descent off of Gannett Peak in Wyoming in a 3 pitch rappel. The fixed anchors were way off the snowline so we used a sling around a rock and then a double rope.

The muenter has a tendency to twist the rope so that is the one drawback in that if you've got multiple pitches and multiple descenders, the person just off the rappel kind of has to untwist the rope.. Not a major problem but not carefree either.

Jay