Franconia Notch parking survey

[gram]

Looks like the NH DOT is looking into doing something about parking on the shoulders of I 93 in the notch. They're looking ahead to summer 2018.

Here is a link to the survey they are doing: https://www.nh.gov/dot/

I have parked on the shoulder on occasion, and honestly, I never felt it to be dangerous, or that I was impeding traffic. While it may be illegal to park on an interstate, the parkway is not your average interstate. In any case, I'm glad they are seeking input.

 

[Ken MacGray]

Direct link to the survey: https://plymouthstate.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_79egBIDSq8jWLB3

 

[peakbagger]

A good start but there is potentially a fundamental flaw in the study unless they acknowledge the AMCs impact to the lots as the lots service two AMC huts.

The logical conclusion is selling the rights to a private entity to run a shuttle service from the Cannon Mtn Parking lots to the Lafayette Place lots for a fee.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I don't see a solution involving shuttles that will accommodate dogs. What happens when people are inevitably delayed and miss the last shuttle? Or just miss the last one for an hour? Hopefully they walk on the bike path and not the parkway. Maybe the AMC should take those four peaks off the 4000-footer list

The same problem exists on 112 at Lincoln Woods, although that is technically not a highway ala I93/FNP.

I am an early bird so I remain largely unaffected (although I did arrive at 6:40 at Lincoln Woods in September and have to park off the road, but Sunday AM has lots of overnighters.)

Tim

 

[cushetunk]

Thinking only about the alpine tundra, fewer dogs might be seen as a good thing.

 

[sierra]

I don't see a solution involving shuttles that will accommodate dogs. What happens when people are inevitably delayed and miss the last shuttle? Or just miss the last one for an hour? Hopefully they walk on the bike path and not the parkway. Maybe the AMC should take those four peaks off the 4000-footer list

The same problem exists on 112 at Lincoln Woods, although that is technically not a highway ala I93/FNP.

I am an early bird so I remain largely unaffected (although I did arrive at 6:40 at Lincoln Woods in September and have to park off the road, but Sunday AM has lots of overnighters.)

Tim

Not sure if your aware. The bike path is posted "No Dogs Allowed". Not that I follow that dumb rule.

 

[Will]

Thinking only about the alpine tundra, fewer dogs might be seen as a good thing.

"Don't worry; he's VERY friendly."

 

[egilbe]

"Don't worry; he's VERY friendly."

Bwahahaa...I heard that exact thing yesterday hiking down from East Royce. Fortunately, the dog in question, was.

 

[skiguy]

"Don't worry; he's VERY friendly."

Sounds like the owner and dog I saw on the Franconia Notch Bike Path.

 

[richard]

I always like seeing dogs having fun while hiking. They always seem happy.

 

[CaptCaper]

I just got back from Acadia and before that 9 national parks out West. Acadia allows dogs on the shuttle. And as you know Zion has shuttle only along the Virgin River.
And all the parks are different in regards to shuttles and dogs so they will focus on this parks needs etc. But I bet they do stop the parking. It is a safety hazard or they wouldn't be having meetings.
I can't see them enlarging the current lot's it or paving the sides.. Good ole days are gone. Such as Zion is now considering reservations to go in for the day or stay over night. Zions camp ground that' first come will be having reservations next year. Due to the long lines waiting for sites and the crazy ness the hosts have to go thru with people. Its a zoo there for sure compared with Bryce or the other parks I saw from Glacier down thru Utah and Nevada.
I see N.Coway is privatizing the shuttle to the Baths. https://www.conwaydailysun.com/news...cle_fa5de9d8-8364-11e7-a9b6-c7d278365cbd.html

 

[peakbagger]

There is already a business model in place nearby for the Lafayette parking issues. Think very popular loop hike, aka the Flume. NH has successfully been running it at a profit for years. I expect the parkway has some limitations on what could be added but think of bulldozing Lafayette Place camping and replacing it with a paid parking lot. Throw in a stormwater catch basin a concession stand and flush toilets and its good to go. Apply a trivial portion of the profits for trail upgrades and then gradually shrink that amount. The expensive infrastructure is already in place, all they need to do is put in a self registration system and buy a couple of Denver boots. Local tow companies will thrive. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if they set it up like the rest area between Manchester and Concord and hand it over to a third party to run it. Literally "pave paradise and put in a parking lot". It probably will fly just as well as Crystal Cascades did

NH has already "sold its soul" at Cannon at the expense of the hiking public by severely limiting public access and building the monstrosity on top of Cannon (complete with porch light) so this concept is not that far fetched.

Do note there was a minor upgrade to the parkway a couple of years ago where they put in a berm in the center lane to prevent cars from parking directly between both sides of the road. Unfortunately all it did was shift more parking north and south along the road.

I don't see NH supporting usage restrictions in the National Forest as means of reducing parking demand at Lafayette place accessed from NH lands unless NH gets a cut as everyone parked along the highway is a potential contributor to the room and meals tax and thus limiting access to hikers potentially costs the state money from lost room and meals. On the other hand I do see NH making revenue off of accessing NF lands via a shuttle or paid parking. The two private AMC huts introduce some significant issues if there is attempt to limit the number of hikers accessing the trails from Lafayette place. It would be difficult to sell the concept that the "rich folks" who make reservations at the huts would somehow have priority to access the trails while the "working stiffs" who day hike would not. I have seen dogs on shuttles in the past and on occasion on airplanes. Its an indirect way of keeping poorly socialized dogs off the trails although I expect the shuttle drivers will not look forward to the inevitable dog versus dog or do versus people incidents.

 

[JustJoe]

As mentioned, Acadia has a shuttle that allows dogs. Unfortunately it's the only National Park I've been to. I'm not a numbers cruncher nor a research expert. So I don't know how Acadia provides this service for free. And to be clear, it's not just run in the park so park entrance fees can't be the funding. Yes, it's free. They do have a donation collector in every bus. I myself, once for how every many days I'm there or than to use it, through in $20. This is a great service with probably a couple dozen buses at least. One of my favorite uses is for traverses. Greatly open up what you can do with one car. Anyway, with all the buses in service now, and a dozen or parking areas in the park, there is still a huge problem with traffic slowdowns and safety issues along the park loop road do to cars (legally) parking along the road and others blocking traffic looking for spot. I was having a conversation with a driver in August while getting a lift and they're thinking of greatly limiting parking in the park and forcing people to use the shuttle.

My point is that it may take some time but people will get used to having to take a shuttle. Logistics and funding would be the major hurdles. I personally see no reason why this could not work.

And the simplest solution for anyone who just has to do the loop is..........Get your lazy A$$ out of bed and get there early.

 

[Daniel Eagan]

Direct link to the survey: https://plymouthstate.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_79egBIDSq8jWLB3

Link won't let me take survey, all I get is a wheel of death

Is it because I'm in New York?

 

[peakbagger]

It comes up for me but I cant change the rankings.

 

[Bob Kittredge]

The problem is that there are just too many GD hikers these days. Time to cull the herd. Maybe not a shoot-to-kill hunt, but shooting-to-cripple would serve the purpose of easing the overflow parking and overcrowded trails.

 

[Will]

too many GD hikers these days. Time to cull the herd. Maybe not a shoot-to-kill hunt, but shooting-to-cripple

What an awful suggestion. Crippling would be cruel.

The hiker-hunting solution has been pointed out many times but the devil is in the details. Do licenses go to the highest bidder (to generate more money for green pickup trucks) or are they given out for free in a lottery? Are there restrictions on what kind of hikers can be taken? Some say restrict it to on-trail crappers and toilet paper litterers, others feel the game, too, should be random to avoid subjective value judgements.

It's an obvious and attractive solution on the surface but when you actually get into the implementation there are issues to be worked out.

 

[egilbe]

Saw this sweet young girl carving her name into the bridge crossing the Pemi near the Basin, yesterday. Explained that was vandalism and to not do it. She kinda sneared at me amd I mentioned it was a $500 fine and to stop doing it. She then left. Can we add vandals to the permitted prey?

 

[TCD]

People are frustrating, and we really need to invest in hiker education. We really have invested zero in this - slap up a bunch of signs, fantastically imagining that they will be obeyed. Where are the trailhead stewards, full time at all the major trailheads to meet with people and educate? Too expensive, we say, but we busily bemoan hiker behavior.

And we should be careful talking about the shooting idea. It's fun to talk about in our frustration, but there are enough idiot Earth-Firsters out there who might get the wrong idea. I would hate to have given encouragement to one of these humanity-hating folks.

 

[Will]

People are frustrating, and we really need to invest in hiker education

It's too bad we don't have some kind of a mechanism where kids, say age 5-18, were in some kind of organized structured environment on a regular basis, say several times a week. We could take advantage of that to include sessions where principles of citizenship and civilized behavior could be explored with them in depth.