FYI: Northern Pass High Voltage Transmission Project

[Bob]

NH doesn't need any more power.
Get out, go home.

and Western MA doesn't need any more water. So let's drain Quabbin Reservoir!

 

[Lou Hale]

and Western MA doesn't need any more water. So let's drain Quabbin Reservoir!

Well said lol

We are all in this mess together

 

[dentonfabrics]

Well, I'm not ranking on CT or MA or anyplace, apology accepted. It's just my opinion that NH doesn't need any more power. Our population is shrinking (just like most of New England and the northeast), and I don't see any new business' being built either. I'm just wary when a salesperson comes knocking on my door with an idea to sell me something that I dont need/want, especially given the associated environmental cost.

As you know, that's how business works. If sales are flat, they (the electric companies) need to create opportunities to sell. They're trying to sell us their idea. But do we really need it? I'm not at all convinced that we do. I think the electric companies may be selling us a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

If CT/MA decides they need power, must you get it from the north? Couldn't the Connecticut River be used for hydroelectricity? How about wind farms off the coast?

I refuse to support the idea that hacking thru thousands of acres of woodlands and running unsightly cables and towers is the only way to address this perceived "problem", which may or may not exist.

 

[Lou Hale]

Well, I'm not ranking on CT or MA or anyplace, apology accepted. It's just my opinion that NH doesn't need any more power. Our population is shrinking (just like most of New England and the northeast), and I don't see any new business' being built either. I'm just wary when a salesperson comes knocking on my door with an idea to sell me something that I dont need/want, especially given the associated environmental cost.

Just because the population is shrinking does not mean that power demand isn't growing. There are all sorts of new gadgets and devices becoming available everyday that require electricity thus leading to an ever increasing demand. How many people have installed some form of AC in the north country in the past 10 years ???

As you know, that's how business works. If sales are flat, they (the electric companies) need to create opportunities to sell. They're trying to sell us their idea. But do we really need it? I'm not at all convinced that we do. I think the electric companies may be selling us a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Im not so sure I follow you here. The electric company is going to have to spend millions to make this happen so im not to sure what they are trying to sell us on here. Im unsure about the utility behind this project but many are investor owned so they would have an awful lot of explaining to do to their stock holders about why they built a transmission line to carry power nobody wants.

If CT/MA decides they need power, must you get it from the north? Couldn't the Connecticut River be used for hydroelectricity? How about wind farms off the coast?

The CT river is already tapped out for hydro and cape wind has to much money opposing it the residents of NH are just not affluent enough to stop a project that against their will. I have also been told that the cost of generating cape wind will be astronomical. The simplest solution isn't a very popular one that I's sure many on this board oppose.

I refuse to support the idea that hacking thru thousands of acres of woodlands and running unsightly cables and towers is the only way to address this perceived "problem", which may or may not exist.

While the problem may not exist today but it will in the near future. Power consumption is only going up up up, faster then population loss and basic efficiency measures can bring it back down. Several nuke plants are scheduled to close in the next 2-3 years totaling something like 15-20% of the regions base line generation. So while it may not be a problem today it almost certainly will be in another 5 to 10 years

 

[brianW]

Seabrook had/has a permit for two reactors and only has one. Besides the energy production it could bring 2-3000 construction jobs and another 500 full time positions after completion. And it is so much closer to where the energy is needed.

Maybe make it run on mixed oxide (MOX) fuel. Get energy and use up weapon grade material at the same time.

 

[Andrew]

Just heard a news story on Saturday that the electric usage from PSNH has gone down so low, mainly due to manufacture/business slowdown, that they are considering raising rates for some. It was more complicated than first perception, but...

The only reason this project is in the works is for a profit, otherwise it would not happen.

Ji..y Ca...r (avoiding politics)had it right, and we would be in less of a predicament if grassroot effort was continued a long time ago to conserve and distribute small scale solutions and generation. If every structure, including existing powerlines and powerline cuts had solar panels and smaller scale wind turbines, it would distribute power generation more broadly. I'm not an engineer but my limited mechanical knowledge (and enjoyment of SimCity) leads to the hunch that this might help solve numerous existing problems. Put less strain on the grid, lessen power loss from long transmission, distribute (lessen) risk of power failure from generation failure at a single large scale facility. This could help keep us from having to destroy more habitat and precious forest resource, which is part of the problem that has gotten us into this mess in the first place.

 

[TCD]

That's absolutely right. Trouble is, the invisible hand of Adam Smith is much stronger than the wishful hand of Jimmy Carter. None of this will happen until petroleum becomes much more expensive. I don't know if we have the will to make that happen.

 

[Bob]

Ji..y Ca...r (avoiding politics)had it right, and we would be in less of a predicament if grassroot effort was continued a long time ago to conserve and distribute small scale solutions and generation.

he had it right fer sure...I wonder how much energy was wasted sitting in the long lines at the gas pumps with all the cars idling during the rationing period.

For every action there are consequences, both intented and unintended.

 

[Andrew]

Sorry. I did not mean to suggest that all of Jimmy Carters energy policy was correct, or that he is the other JC. Just that if we started moving towards conservation measures a long time ago, maybe we would not be in the place we are now.

 

[Bob]

yes I understand. Unfortunately many measures that look good on paper have unintended consequences and do more harm than good.
Many of us have been 'green' before it was cool to do so or became the latest marketing buzzword.

 

[Andrew]

I know what you mean. I started to theorize that we were severely affecting the global climate as a mere teen in 1986, before hearing any mention of it from anywhere.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

For those who might be interested, today's edition of The Exchange (NHPR) was about this project. Note that I did not listen to it (yet) myself. You can stream it or download it from here:

http://nhpr.org/debating-northern-pass

Tim

 

[RoySwkr]

They may also require 28 miles of new corridor in the Concord area if you look closely at their map. The existing corridor is too close to Concord airport for the height of towers they want to build, and the FAA has not yet granted a waiver. Of course land in this area is far more expensive and a lot more people could be affected.

 

[Waumbek]

Of course land in this area is far more expensive and a lot more people could be affected.

So....? What is your implication?

 

[RoySwkr]

So....? What is your implication?

The more the whole project costs, the less economically viable it may be - the 2nd reactor at Seabrook was killed for cost not environmental reasons

The more total people that oppose the project, the more likely the state is to find a way to stop it

 

[Waumbek]

The more the whole project costs, the less economically viable it may be - the 2nd reactor at Seabrook was killed for cost not environmental reasons

The more total people that oppose the project, the more likely the state is to find a way to stop it

I hope you are right. Hydro-Quebec, which is financing this project, made a profit of $2-3B (US) last year. A couple of "expensive" properties in Concord NH aren't going to stop them. Public opposition is important but only if it galvanizes politicians into action. That takes writing lots of letters.

 

[dentonfabrics]

For those who might be interested, today's edition of The Exchange (NHPR) was about this project. Note that I did not listen to it (yet) myself. You can stream it or download it from here:

http://nhpr.org/debating-northern-pass

Tim

Thanks for posting this Tim.

This is an interesting listen for people with a serious interest in this. It's a panel debate with both sides well represented.

Listening to it, I was wondering why the suit from the electric company kept referring to it as "renewable energy" when the state of NH does not officially qualify this project as such. He got called out on it. A real "huminah huminah" moment.

My takeaway was that this project is a money grab for the utilities. We dont need the power, esp given the environmental costs. (It's pointed out that NH has an 18% surplus of power in it's grid.) It's just that PSNH & HydroQuebec need the revenue and they're trying to stuff this project down our throats. It wouldn't be the first time.

Here's the facebook page for Stop The Northern Pass initiative;

 

[peakbagger]

Vermont did not recognize hydro quebec power as renewable until last year when they had a choice between buying more Hydro Quebec power or keeping VT yankee running. They now regard it as renewable.

There has been speculation that the state of Mass is going to somehow recognize HQ power as renewable now that they appear to be effectively marginalizing their major source of renewables which was biomass power produced mostly out of state. Currently hydro like HQ is specfically excluded from the Mass renewable portfolio statute. So its a shift from "not in my backyard
" to "Not in my state" to "Not in my country". Do note that the reported hydro quebec first year contract price to VT is above that of natural gas combined cycle plants. Barring a carbon tax, its going to be long time before baseload renewables are going to be able to compete against fossil fuels without extensive subsidies.

I recently was given a good book on global and national power long term trends called "Power Hungry" by Robert Bryce, its a real eye opener as it blows away a lot of "myths" that are represented as facts by politicians and the popular press. There is a mention of proliferation of transmission lines required to support renewables which is happening all over the country.

 

[Waumbek]

PB--NIMC has spread into NH. See proposed HB 302. Hearing in Concord on Feb 8. How's that for fast?

 

[Lou Hale]

My takeaway was that this project is a money grab for the utilities. We dont need the power, esp given the environmental costs. (It's pointed out that NH has an 18% surplus of power in it's grid.) It's just that PSNH & HydroQuebec need the revenue and they're trying to stuff this project down our throats. It wouldn't be the first time.

Here's the facebook page for Stop The Northern Pass initiative;

If no one needs the power how do they plan on getting the revenue ? I doubt there will be much revenue from a power line with no customer