Gear Exchange Forum Poll?

[DeadFred]

Dear VFTT members,

I have asked Darren what he thinks about a gear exchange on VFTT so that members can trade gear, sell or buy used gear, and point each other to sales at gear shops. Case in point...I have seen an occasional posting promoting a good deal somewhere and they seem to have some interest for members.

So I am posting this poll to help Darren assess the level of interest on the part of VFTT members to allow him to make a decision about such a forum.

There are certainly some advantages as well as drawbacks to the concept but I figured this would be a way to flush out some feedback. First and foremost, I would hope that a decision on Darren's part to move forward with this concept would:

a) be met with respect on the part of the members in the way they deal with each other; and,

b) in no way present any liability to Darren for his willingness to host such an exchange on this site; and,

c) not negatively impact the primary focus and professionalism of his site.

Furthermore, it has been suggested by VFTT member Boots, that some percentage or premium be paid back to Darren's charity for each trade. While this is an excellent idea, it may present some logitistical issues to be worked out if Darren accepted such a proposal. Thoughts in this regard would be helpful. (Should it be voluntary? How would it be collected? How much? etc.)

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this one!

DeadFred

 

[percious]

I approached Darren on similar lines. I make home-made alcohol stoves, and I offered to give $5 from every sale off VFTT towards his cause. He said that it he didnt think it woud be received well. If gear trade had it's own forum, then people who dont want to see commercialism on the site can just bypass it.

I also think that if people offer to give to the cancer fund, that they do it voluntarily. Otherwise, people could just eBay their gear.

-percious

 

[Rob S]

I like the idea. It would be great to be able to give away or trade older or redundant gear, especially to those just starting out, or for their kids. Someone recently posted asking for possible used gear for their son instead of spending hundreds of $$ on something they will outgrow in a year. Good idea, DeadFred.

 

[TomEske]

I think it's a good idea. I think it should have a set of ground rules including the possibility that it will go away if there are problems that effect the rest of the site.
As some of you may have noticed, I recently posted a request for a specific piece of gear (with Darren's prior approval). The problem I had was that of the 4 (quick) responses I received, NONE of those people wanted to sell me the gear, they all wanted to give it to me!
I wound up accepting two gracious offers of some very nice stuff that will wind up in the equipment bank of my Scout Troop helping boys gear up for the more challenging trips. This is of course in addition to filling the original need.
The VFTT crew is both generous and kind. I'll be curious to see how many actual sales take place as opposed to swaps or outright donations to each other.
Happy Hiking,
Tom

 

[sbear]

A pessimistic opinion

While I like the idea and think it would very beneficial to VFTT'rs, I hate to point out the potential legal issues and liabilities this could present for Darren and the site. While I would never anticipate any of the regulars causing an issue, once that portion of the site is open, it will eventually be used and subject to abuse by anyone in internet land. I am sure most have heard stories of the abuses on EBAY and other internet auction sights, fraudulent offerings, cases of non-shipment, non-payment, the buyer not getting what they feel was actually described and so on. Without a well thought out model and active monitoring of the activity, I would fear a used gear exchange or selling site could quickly get out of hand and subject all involved to litigation. Of course, that is just one bear's opinion.

 

[imarchant]

Liability

I Think this is a great idea. How would Darren be liable for a sale if he was not involved in the transaction? Is he liable if someone slips and falls on a mountain, because they read a trail report on this site and then took the same trail? Is a newspaper liable for items sold in the want ads?

I don't think it is practical or appropriate for a portion of any transaction to go towards this site or any charity. The site will not be performing any transactions. It will just be a forum to discuss the sale/trade of equipment. People are always welcome to donate more to Darren favorite charity if they find this site useful.

 

[snowshoe]

I think it is a great idea as well. There are many times I am looking to but something used but never wanted to go through the e-bay process. I would rather trade or sell gear through VFTT, especially since I trust the people on this site more than any other.

Anyone that tries to rip anyone off should then be banned from the site. I think that would be fair.

Too keep the sellers out you can do something with the amount of posts one has. Say you need to have posted at least 20+ times to be able to sell. Not sure if the site can be done to work ike that. Just some more thouhts.

 

[bubba]

Good idea. Separate forum.

 

[shadowcat]

for it

i've always wanted something like this. as for any liability - i'm no lawyer but this is just a medium to chat about what we have to sell, trade, etc. it's not like vftt is going to be involved. i would think all transactions will be directly bet seller/buyer etc. i would think some type of disclaimer would be called for tho just to cover the site. i've often purchased things & then never used them & they sit there, wasted money. and i really good at finding sales to pass along!

 

[trailbiscuit]

Can we buy & sell hiking partners?

I think it's a good idea...I have a few things in my basement ready to go!

 

[shadowcat]

Can we buy & sell hiking partners?

now that's a good idea!
how a bout a hiking partner exchange? or "rent my partner for the day..."
i'm sure my partner gets sick of me some times (even tho i know i'm his fav, & ditto he) .....

 

[Peakbagr]

Its Darren's call, but I see it as one more place to monitor.
Possible complaints about misrepresentation, pricing, quality, not what was advertised, etc.
Technical climbing gear, climbing/caving ropes, your old crampons that break the first time the new buyer uses them in a whiteout far above the treeline somewhere, the "like-new" water filter.

As to the liability issue...I can assure you that anyone associated with the forum can be dragged into a suit. An attorney for an aggrieved party can name anyone as party to a suit. Its as simple as stating that there was improper supervision of what was sold and the monitors "SHOULD HAVE KNOWN...(fill in the blanks). Even if groundless, you have to hire your own attorney to defend the suit. Without getting into more details, I deal with these issues every week in another life.

Sounds like a load of fun for board members and a load of hassles with some exposure for the Moderators.

Darren's is the only vote that counts, but I would prefer not.

 

[TomEske]

Well PB, I see your point and can understand your concerns ( I moderate 3 reflectors). How about if we put it up for a month and then take another poll? See how it goes? Put in lots of disclaimers abotu not being responsible, etc and see how it flies, or not?
Just a thought,
Tom

 

[RoySwkr]

I would not only support the idea of a Gear Exchange Forum but also a separate forum for gear opinions to keep those topics out of the regular forums, since I like more numerous, more focused forums.

As to moderation, it appears that each forum can have different moderators so maybe DF instead of PB for Gear Exchange to spread the work.

As to liability, I am not an attorney but I suspect there is more risk to the moderators if someone gets bad advice on trail difficulty than if they buy defective equipment the moderator has never seen.

As to payment, it would seem to reduce liability if any payment is strictly voluntary, but we have seen that some owners of used equipment can be generous.

It appears that opinion so far is to try it, I wish the person who voted "Don't waste my time" would explain how a new forum they could ignore would waste their time.

 

[Johnnycakes]

I'm in favor of it. EBay is great for new or like new items, but a seller is unlikely to get a fair price on any item described as used on EBay. The opportunity to buy used gear (via this site) presents a good opportunity for many "newbies" and others to gear up cheap. It also presents a good opportunity for those of us that have one too many packs, sleeping bags, tents, etc. to see that item put to good use, and make some money as well.

I would suggest a few general guidelines. First, members should be as honest as possible about descriptions of their gear. I guess that goes without saying. If you think you may not accurately be able to describe the condition of your gear (so as to get a fair price), or if you think one person's idea of excellent condition may be different than your idea of excellent condition, then suggest that you meet up with the individual to show it to them. I think most of us hike (in the Whites, Catskill, or Adirondacks) quite often. It may not be that difficult to arrange a meeting. That way, the individual can see the item before they purchase it. I know that I would feel more comfortable showing a buyer an item before they purchased it, just to make sure it was what they really wanted.

Second, any gear exchange discussion should be confined strictly to the gear exchange forum. In other words, if a thread within General Backcountry is entitled "Best Pack for Adirondacks," members should not mention in that thread that they have a pack for sale. I think the threads could quickly become polluted with "for sale" posts if that were allowed.

Third, all discussions, questions, etc. should take place via email or PMs. No need to waste space on this site discussing price, questions, etc.

John

 

[peak_bgr]

Great idea. Maybe a tough thing to get going. The best idea I've heard however is. Make it another catigory itself on the forums page. Also, Darrin's charity should get a kickback.

 

[Tuco]

I think it would be a positive- there are also some obvious concerns.

The way I would forsee this working best is have the forum a spot for posting items for sale and posting items wanted. All the negotiations and agreements and even questions can be made offline. The seller can always post more details if questions warrant it.

I have seen this done unofficially on another hiking site on a small level and seemed positive.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I tend to agree with peakbgr (did I get the spelling right?). There will be management problems.

Heck, 99% of he people here will cause no problems, right? Well, there are over a thousand people, and when ou have those knid of numbers, there WILL be problems.

There will be honest mistakes, in which someone feels cheated, and will want to use this forum to warn others that the seller is bad.

There will be dishonest dealings. Some of you may have noticed a few days ago, how someone registered here, then posted to advertize his gaming site. People do things.

Then there is 'scope-crepe' What is valid grear. Ganna buy a used climbing rope? How about a bicycle. Hey, I use one to get from trailhead-to trailhead. How about a car? It gets you to the trailhead.

Sorry if I tend to sound pessamistic, but I my work deals with the seedier side of the Internet (I am abuse@...) I gave a talk at an Internet conference, a while bck "The Dark Side of the Internet". There are ugly things out there, and people trying to take advantage of everything they can.

I would recoemnt to darren that he do NOT allow it, for his own sanity. It would be dumping more work and problems onto him, and for what? I would also ask that if Darren decides not to allow it, that everyone understands why.

 

[Silverback]

I had voted for the idea, because it sounded like a logical progression from what this site is all about. However, after reading the replies here and giving it further thought, I now feel otherwise. Given the potential negatives, this could easily become a train wreck.

There are plenty of other sites that can better accomodate this activity. The moderation of such a segment would likely become a huge task, and could significantly affect the quality of this site overall, by drawing the moderators efforts away. Not to mention the probable whizzing contests that would result from deals gone bad.

 

[KZKlimber]

As a point of comparison, NEIce.com has a used gear section where members can post used climbing equipment for sale. It is not heavily used, but several posts a week is common.

It is transparent to the rest of the site, and I see no mention of it in other posts. I have seen no evidence of abuse (and NEIce actually has more registered members than VFTT).

A portion of each sale goes towards the cost of maintaining the site.

That is clearly from a members perspective. I don't know how much effort it places on the moderator. The decision is clearly his.