good winter coat

[Adk_dib]

looking to do more winter hiking this year. I have done small mountains in the past like hadley and blue. Want to start doing some high peaks in the winter.
Have always layered shirts with sweat shirt and down vest. If I am going to do higher peaks I want to be prepared. So my question is, what is a good light weight and well insulated coat to use. The ems store looks like it only have lighter coats. Should I get a lighter coat and layer it with a warm pullover. I am going to a ems store in a month becouse I dont want to buy anything like this without trying it on. So I would appreciate any suggestions.

 

[sierra]

I agree with kevin, I dress in layers. MY basic gear consist of a lightweight shirt, long sleeve shirt, mid weight fleece, a heavy fleece with windblock and a shell. I will say that I do own a Patagonia "guide jacket" this is an insulated jacket covered with thier version of waterproofing, but I only carry this jacket when the forecast calls for extremely cold temps which can reasonably be forecasted.

 

[BrentD22]

I do something similar

I almost wear like above, although I get too hot with all that on. I've gone with a new series of layers after this winter that worked out well.

For very cold, very windy days
Layer #1 - Polypro long sleeve T-Shirt
Layer #2 - Long Sleeve Wind Resistant Fleece w/zipper
Layer #3 - Wind proof outer shell

For not so cold, but windy days
Layer #1 - Polypro long sleeve t-shirt
Layer #2 - Short Sleeve Fleece w/zipper
Layer #3 - Wind proof shell (usually with vents open)

For very cold, but not so windy
Layer #1 - Polypro long sleeve
Layer #2 - Long Sleeve wind resistant fleece w/zipper

Note when I say very windy I mean VERY WINDY above tree line kind of thing. Very cold would be at or below 10. In the cold conditions with little wind I go with only 2 layers, although I have my down parka readily available to put on so I do not get chilled. While I hike I get very hot and sweaty, IMO it would be better for me to be slightly cool while hiking to prevent the wetness caused by sweat.

The various wind resistant fleece jackets really are great, lightwieght and do a great job in most conditions. Owning a down parka is nice as well because it is easily packed and can come out of the pack and on your body quickly keeping you warm without taking up too much space or wieght in your pack.

My final suggestion to you:
- No cotton, it will absorb your sweat, cool your body, and kill you above tree ling.
- You mentioned pull overs. Bad idea... Zippers are vital because you can vent heat and mosture with front zipper and arm pit zippers.
- Polypro base layer or similar is a must.
- Fleece with wind resistant material is really nice.
- You will figure out what is best for you, but don't go up above tree line or into extreme cold conditions without being confident of you skills, gear, clothing, and your health or physical condition. In summer getting caught out a night might be dangerous, but most likely not deadly. Getting caught out on a cold winter night without proper gear, clothing, ect you will die. I'm sure you have some good hiking/backpacking skills so I only mention all this just in case you don't.

 

[linehant]

>>what is a good light weight and well insulated coat to use. <<

As others have said... think "layers", rather than one "well insulated coat".

The air temp might be 0 degrees, but you will be hot, hot, hot, when hiking uphill. And the key to staying comfortable (and safe) in the winter is to stay DRY. You want to wear enough insulation to be warm, but not so much that you sweat. Having a number of layers, rather than a thickly insulated jacket, makes it possible to adjust to varying conditions; add a layer when you get cold, doff a layer when you get hot.

The sales folks at EMS should be able to explain and demonstrate the concept (of layering) using items from their inventory. It will be very similar to what the other responses to this thread have described:

- A non-cotton base layer
- One or more non-cotton fleece/insulation layers
- A gortex or similar windproof shell

To that **I** add a down or synthetic parka that can be worn OVER everything else - including the gortex shell.

Incidentally... the layering concept works for mittens or gloves, too. Rather than wear a single heavy glove, consider going with a thin liner/base layer, followed by a fleece, wool, Primaloft, etc. insulation layer followed by a wind/waterproof shell. That offers a lot of flexibility in terms of adapting to the outside temperature as well as the heat that you generate whilst hiking.

Again... the folks at EMS (or any other reputable outdoor store) should be able to demonstrate the concept and recommend products for each of the different layers.

You mentioned "sweatshirt" in your post. If it's made of polyester fleece it will probably work fine. But, as others have said, AVOID wearing anything cotton (including underwear) in the winter; once wet, cotton does NOT provide insulation and is very slow to dry. In contrast, synthetics and wool continue to provide insulation when wet.

The salesfolk will probably wax rhapsodic about "soft shells" - the latest rage in outdoor fashion. They're great pieces - sort of a cross between a fleece insulation layer and a windshell, but expensive. In some cases, VERY expensive. If cash is an issue, the softshells aren't necessary; you can get by perfectly well using "classic" fleece and a "hardshell" (aka gortex etc).

 

[dave.m]

The salesfolk will probably wax rhapsodic about "soft shells" - the latest rage in outdoor fashion. They're great pieces - sort of a cross between a fleece insulation layer and a windshell, but expensive. In some cases, VERY expensive. If cash is an issue, the softshells aren't necessary; you can get by perfectly well using "classic" fleece and a "hardshell" (aka gortex etc).

Agreed.

In fact, I would go even further than that.

IMO, GoreTex and other hardshells are neither needed, nor particularly well suited for winter use (temps below 28F). The breathability of those shells is so poor that it is very easy to frost up your insulating layers. Old style nylon windbreakers breath much better, cost much, much, much less and generally weigh less and pack better.

There are places where GoreTex is useful in winter. They include:
+ Extended periods above treeline where the superior windproofness of Gtx is apperhent
+ Downhill skiing where you create your own wind
+ Fall and Spring (temps up near 30F) where wet snow can soak through non-waterproof shells

 

[John H Swanson]

Everyone has an opinion ...

and the saying - "whatever works for you" applies here.

That said - I don't think much of the concept of layering for warmth and here's why.

In winter you have basically two conditions - moving and not moving.
When you are not moving, you can add two three or four layers on fleece and still be cold. What you need is an big thick insulated (down or synthetic fill) parka with hood. Of course you would never wear this hiking because your metabolic rate is too high. Nonetheless you need to carry this multihundreddollar investment in case you can not hike because you are injured or someone in your group is injured. So you need a big pack to carry it. It's also good for when you stop for lunch. In 10 seconds you're dressed and eating. By the time a layerer gets on 3 layers of fleece, I'm done eating, packed and walking again and they're hypothermic and hungry. (okay, I guess that was a little harse. remember whatever works for you. It's just my experience. I guess a lot of beginners try to layer fleece and as beginners they take more time ... ) Winter hiking to high peaks requires alot of effort and I recommend methods that are efficient for safety and improved chances of success. A single layer coat is more efficient and safe for non moving situations.

When you are moving, if you move fast, a single layer or polypro (or any synthetic long underwear) will sometimes be adequate for staying warm. For me I probably spend 50% of my winter hiking time in one upper layer. Add a goretex shell and you sweat. So try an uncoated nylon shell or a Schoeler fabric shoft shell for the times you need a litle extra warmth or wind protection. This shell should have a hood to protect against snow down the neck. Of course you still need a waterproof layer for the times it is 35F and raining, so add a light Marmot precip jacket or equivalent to your pack. Most times you'll be carrying it.

And if you do hike in -10 or colder weather, then you might need another fleece. So I guess I do "layer" for warth, sometimes

 

[jfb]

Here's another opinion, which is much like the rest:

When hiking, I wear a light uncoated polyester shell with hood over whatever layers I need underneath to stay comfortable. Those layers include wool baselayer, wool sweater or fleece pullover, Primaloft or fleece vest. I find that moisture passes through the fabric pretty easily and I don't get much icing inside when it's cold.

When I stop, I wear a down jacket with hood that fits over everything. I use a Feathered Friends Frontpoint jacket because it is light and can be compressed relatively small.

If the temperatures are near freezing, I'll also bring a Marmot Precip anorak and wear that instead of the polyester shell. I won't wear it much below freezing because it ices up inside.

One thing you should not do (based on my experience) is wear a down vest underneath a shell while hiking. The down will absorb moisture and lose its effectiveness, then won't dry.

Another thing to remember is that if you put on your last piece of clothing on the way to the top of mountain, you won't have another piece to add on the way down. Your body will not be producing as much heat on the way down and you may get pretty cold.

One more thing, I ordered my shell from Mountaingear.com and had to return it because it didn't fit. They exchanged it no problem and I only had to pay to ship it back.

 

[Oldsmores]

and the saying - "whatever works for you" applies here...What you need is an big thick insulated (down or synthetic fill) parka with hood...

I can't quibble with a lot of John H's comments, and he's right that it's important to find what works for you. The only thing I'd disagree with is the "big thick insulated parka". I carry an EMS down sweater (basically a down jacket without a hood). It weighs very little, packs down small, but is great for those lunch stops or in camp at night. I find that a fleece hat and my shell hood are more flexible than a hooded parka.

 

[dave.m]

I can't quibble with a lot of John H's comments, and he's right that it's important to find what works for you. The only thing I'd disagree with is the "big thick insulated parka". I carry an EMS down sweater (basically a down jacket without a hood). It weighs very little, packs down small, but is great for those lunch stops or in camp at night. I find that a fleece hat and my shell hood are more flexible than a hooded parka.

3 Comments....

1) I think down is fine for day trips. Its low pack weight and compressability are hard to beat. But, I want to use my mega-warm outer layer much like John described -- throwing it on at stops when my other layers are sweaty and damp. It's hard to kill a down jacket in a day but for overnights and such, I'll trade the size and weight for my more robust Primaloft belay jacket.

2) In terms of hoods, I've not found any hat that provides the warmth of an insulated hood. Having it attached is key as it stops heat loss better around the back of the neck. I have 3 insulated outer layers and they all have hoods.

3) My quibble with John's comments are 2-fold... First, not everybody can get away with a single layer of polypro in cold temps like he can. At the very least, I need a light windbreaker (non-gtx) over poly. Others need a tick more. The benifit of layering is not in being able to adjust on the trail. As John correctly notes, there are 2 mode on the trail - hiking and sitting. Rather, the utility of multiple layers is having a single system in your clothes closet that is adaptable to a wide range of temps. I always have a poly base layer and almost always have a light windbreaker on. What changes from fall till spring is how thick the fleece layer between those 2 are ranging from nothing to 1/4" pile (for sub-zero days).

 

[nazdarovye]

The benifit of layering is not in being able to adjust on the trail. As John correctly notes, there are 2 mode on the trail - hiking and sitting. Rather, the utility of multiple layers is having a single system in your clothes closet that is adaptable to a wide range of temps.

Interesting - I am completely the other way on this.

I adjust layers a lot on the trail and in camp, and see that as the prime benefit of a layering system.

I can strip down to softshell pants and a thin poly top when snowshoeing in milder conditions; I might wear a softshell top or wp/b shell or both if conditions worsen; I might throw on the softshell or a synthetic vest for a brief rest stop; I'll throw on additional layers - a parka, insulated pants, thicker mittens, a hat or balaclava - in stages over time when taking longer stops or in camp.

Layering lets me completely adjust my clothing to my exertion level and the conditions around me.

- Steve

 

[dave.m]

Steve,

I think we're in basic agreement here.

First, we are in total agreement about adding the big layers. My hooded parka goes on at pretty much every break. Insulated pants in camp.

But for on trail while active, I find that I don't adjust layers that much. Through out the day. At most, I'll add or subtract a light vest to my basic layering system through out the day. But this is difference between the morning cold and the afternoon "heat" of a winter trail, eh?