Got a parking ticket at Kearsage North today

[peakbagger]

The town of Conway appears to be back in revenue enhancement mode. Conway owns the south side of the road and Bartlett owns the north side. The towns have recently put in no parking signs on both sides of the road. I made sure to park well outside these signed areas but still got a ticket for blocking a public road. The shoulder is steep along much of the road so parking completely off the pavement is not an option for much of the road

I get a kick out of their ticket policy. If the ticket is not paid within two business days of the ticket, it automatically goes up $50 to $100. GIven the USPS changes in delivery times of late, that means that anyone using the mail to send in the ticket now most likely owes another $50 to $100. The ticket expressily states "postal delays will not be valid excuse". They do list an address to appeal but any appeal must be accompanied by a check for the fine and it has to be received within the time allowed (two business days in writing (no electronic filing).

My guess is a lawyer with time to spare could probably successfully challenge the local statute. I will chalk it up to town trying to make up revenue for the loss of revenue for parking meters downtown. .

 

[Rhody Seth]

I'm trying to wrap my head around each side of the road being ticketed by a different town. At any rate, that's some grade A horseshit making you pay the ticket within two days.

 

[ChrisB]

Is Hurricane Mountain Road open to N Chatham?

(You have two days to respond to this question after which I’ll ask another.)

 

[peakbagger]

Not sure, it is usually open by now. They post it year round as a seasonal road so the only way to find out is to drive to the end of the road and find out. The category of ticket listed is "Parking to Block Alley or Street. Note the I am past the No Parking area sign and off the traveled way with adequate space for a standard width vehicle to pass. The fire hydrant on the Bartlett side of the road is also signed no parking so there is plenty of road width. IMO, this is just a revenue grab by a small town going after out of town revenue. I assume Skiguy will not agree

 

[skiguy]

It’s skiguy with a lower case “s”.

 

[JoshandBaron]

Judging by your tires being over the fog line you aren't off the travelled way but there still looks like 12 feet available.

 

[skiguy]

Judging by your tires being over the fog line you aren't off the travelled way but there still looks like 12 feet available.

The vehicle is also not well past the parking sign. The sign itself has an arrow pointing in both directions which is obviously there to designate an area of no parking not just in front of the sign of no parking. Your grasping at straws to prove your point. Suck it up. Personally I don’t understand why people from out of town don’t realize the fact this is a residential zone and the folks living there might be a little tired of others parking in their front yard week after week, year after year. Personally this post comes off as whining. Yes I do disagree and it is not just because I live in the town where this occurred. By the way I need to follow the rules too and would experience the same circumstances if I did the same thing.

 

[Ken MacGray]

Not judging either way, but in looking at that photo, there appears to be plenty of room to get off the pavement completely?

 

[peakbagger]

I will agree on being parked over the white line. I obviously took the photo with a long perspective but in the area I was parked the white line was more obscured with gravel than it appears and there was some glass further in the shoulder. I was well past the sign in question but perspective tends to compress distances. I must admit I was lulled into parking where I did as I was obviously outside the sign defined no parking area and I was not the only one. Not sure when they put the new signage in (I think during Covid) but there are lots of no parking signs including on either side of the fire hydrant across the street. They are not generic no parking signs, they delineate specific areas.

skiguy you are wrong on the sign in question so I may not be the only one grasping at straws. Sorry the resolution is not perfect so you cannot see that the arrow is pointing in only one direction. Feel free to check on your own time, but hard to take your high horse commentary when you do not know what you are talking about. The no parking signs on the south (Conway) side of the road mark off the area directly opposite the small hiker lot on the north side of the road. Here is a blow up of a portion of the sign from another picture I had taken at a slightly different angle but at the same location on the road that is a bit clearer. Note it says "between signs" and I was parked past it in the opposite direction of the arrow.

 

[skiguy]

Thankyou for the clarification on the sign. I think you might be the one up on their high horse as you were the one whom had to call me out personally in your OP whether it was a joke or not. You elicited a response and you got one. Your points could have been made otherwise. Also parking on both sides of the road narrows the road to local traffic not to mention creating a safety hazard when the vehicles are not completely off the road as yours was. Whether you were legal or not you were creating a potential situation. I do agree the two day collection of fees with penalties is unreasonable.

 

[peakbagger]

Actually, there is only parking on the south side of the road at that location. The signed fire hydrant no parking zone is directly across the street from where my car was parked means the road is not narrowed.

 

[skiguy]

Actually, there is only parking on south side of the road at that location. The signed fire hydrant no parking zone is directly across the street from where my car was parked means the road is not narrowed.

Meanwhile thank you for your donation to the Conway coiffers.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Judging by your tires being over the fog line you aren't off the travelled way but there still looks like 12 feet available.

I agree. Terrible job parking, Peakbagger.

 

[peakbagger]

I even got to pay a surcharge for paying online to assure that the fine was paid on time. Of course in order to pay online, I had to accept the terms that include agreeing to the charges. If I had attempted to appeal, it would most likely had arrived in more than two business days since most post offices do not do direct local deliveries anymore. Formerly POs would have local mail slots that skipped regional hubs but according to some PO folks I talked to, that is no longer done as the PO now scans and stores an image of the outside of every piece of mail sent through the system at regional distribution hubs then sent back to the local POs ro delivery so two day delivery is very rare except for bulk mail. Therefore, I would most likely be subject for the late fee. So Conway has created a catch 22. Someone up here for a few days is effectively at the mercy of the town unless they pay immediately by credit card. Beats parking meters in downtown and far less complaint from the local businesses. It would be interesting to see how many ticket actually get paid, my guess is most are torn up by one time visitors as they are heading out of town.

I also flagged this in New England Trail Conditions that will be scraped by TrailsNH and probably a few other spots so at least the word will get out for a while. Reportedly the town also is working Passaconaway road near the South Moat parking lot that despite being much larger than Kearsage North Parking also gets overflow onto the local street. Between Diana's Bath, South Moat and Hurricane Mountain road, predominately out of town hikers are probably a nice revenue stream to the town.

 

[NHClimber]

When a lot is full, folks should move onto another destination. But to be clear, we are all guilty of parking as PB did. I am sympathetic to the residents who don’t want vehicles lining the roads in front of their homes or otherwise creating de facto parking areas along the road which, frankly, look like crap after a while. Same is true at forest trailheads. Let’s face it, we are all pretty selfish about this stuff because gosh darn it when we want to hike trail X we are going to hike trail X even if it requires creative parking techniques. I’m trying to get better at having alternative plans, though I find it easier to just not go to the popular trailheads on a weekend unless I can get there super early.

 

[NHClimber]

Btw, there is additional parking at the water precinct cistern up the road a little where the mountain bikers park for the red tail and other trails. The town created some additional parking along the road there as well. Then you get a pleasant 1/4 mile warm up and warm down for your hike.

 

[Beckie and Prema]

For the love of God people, if you have the option of dropping your ticket off at Town Hall or wherever, do it! When not in the woods I am behind the counter at the post office by myself constantly apologizing to the ten customers in my line while awaiting for the later clerks to come in (they will have their turn to work alone later on, after I go home - I work 5 - 1:30). The Powers That Be have instituted changes that are to no one's benefit. I will leave it at that so as not to 1. cause thread drift and 2. drift toward politics.

 

[Ken MacGray]

When a lot is full, folks should move onto another destination. But to be clear, we are all guilty of parking as PB did. I am sympathetic to the residents who don’t want vehicles lining the roads in front of their homes or otherwise creating de facto parking areas along the road which, frankly, look like crap after a while. Same is true at forest trailheads. Let’s face it, we are all pretty selfish about this stuff because gosh darn it when we want to hike trail X we are going to hike trail X even if it requires creative parking techniques. I’m trying to get better at having alternative plans, though I find it easier to just not go to the popular trailheads on a weekend unless I can get there super early.

No, we are are not all pretty selfish about this nor are we all guilty of parking like this. Not sure how such a blanket statement can be made.

Personally, I usually have Plans B and C in mind if Plan A doesn't work. If I arrive at a trailhead and find it full, I'll go elsewhere. Again, there are tons of other places to hike. This usually isn't an issue, however, because I like to start early and I also favor locations that aren't crowded.

 

[skiguy]

I even got to pay a surcharge for paying online to assure that the fine was paid on time. Of course in order to pay online, I had to accept the terms that include agreeing to the charges. If I had attempted to appeal, it would most likely had arrived in more than two business days since most post offices do not do direct local deliveries anymore. Formerly POs would have local mail slots that skipped regional hubs but according to some PO folks I talked to, that is no longer done as the PO now scans and stores an image of the outside of every piece of mail sent through the system at regional distribution hubs then sent back to the local POs ro delivery so two day delivery is very rare except for bulk mail. Therefore, I would most likely be subject for the late fee. So Conway has created a catch 22. Someone up here for a few days is effectively at the mercy of the town unless they pay immediately by credit card. Beats parking meters in downtown and far less complaint from the local businesses. It would be interesting to see how many ticket actually get paid, my guess is most are torn up by one time visitors as they are heading out of town.

I also flagged this in New England Trail Conditions that will be scraped by TrailsNH and probably a few other spots so at least the word will get out for a while. Reportedly the town also is working Passaconaway road near the South Moat parking lot that despite being much larger than Kearsage North Parking also gets overflow onto the local street. Between Diana's Bath, South Moat and Hurricane Mountain road, predominately out of town hikers are probably a nice revenue stream to the town.

Again I totally agree the method of collection of fees is unreasonable. Your reference multiple times to parking meters in downtown was collectively opposed by the residents of Conway at large. It was a half baked idea by the local selectman to raise revenue for the town. As many out of towners obviously have disdain for compliance when it comes to following local parking laws and any fees that may incur. There are some of us locals that are concerned about their experience and want it to be a good one. It was largely recognized that parking meters in downtown N. Conway were not indigenous to the already existing experience. Designated Trailhead Parking is limited in a lot of areas through out The Whites. Limited access should be recognized and tolerated by the user. If the lot is full taking creative means to park is just ignorant. Creative parking should not be tolerated IMO. Something tells me if and when someone parked erroneously a long Randolph Hill Road or Durand Road with in or out of State plates there might be a few locals that might be upset. I for one when I travel wherever it might be I see myself as a guest and act appropriately analogous to that privilege. If I screw up and have to pay for it I chalk it up to experience and try to do better next time.

 

[peakbagger]

Most of the rural towns in the north country do not have police, at best they have a part time constable and the state police patrol the major roads like RT 2 and RT 16. Coos County sheriffs do not routinely do any traffic enforcement and I expect would not enforce individual towns local parking ordinances. (In rare cases in the past they did accept money from the WMNF to enforce rules at Barnes Field). There are on occasion parking issues in north country towns and the respective local clubs tend to be the ones that resolve them, but cars parked along the roads at trailheads are somewhat expected and tolerated. At one point AMC,USFS and other groups had a nonpublicized "confidential" working group that worked in the long term to resolve trailhead conflicts in many locations, I was on their mailing list long ago but do not know if it still exists. The parking at Bowman in Randolph, the relocation of the South Moat trail and Dianas Baths Parking were a few of their visible successes while the Mt Cabot West resolution of closing the trail rather than claiming the established legal rights is one of their losses (at least in the short term) At Peabody Brook trail in Shelburne, popular this time of year due to Giant Falls, the clubs posted a sign in the past requesting hikers to park at another specific location and name that location. It less of an issue thee days as the complainign homeowner moved 20 years ago and there shoulder is bit wider on the south side of the road to hold a fewe more cars. I dont have the latest AMC guide but prior versions referred to parking at Peabody Brook trail parking is at the Hogan Road intersection in Shelburne. The Randolph Community Forest (a linked but separate entity from the town or the RMC) actually built a new hiker parking lot at the end of Randolph Hill Road and relocated several trails to end up at the new parking to resolve some parking issues elsewhere and it appears to have been successful. Along Durand Road, there is at least one trail head sign that requests hikers park at the town hall lot parking. Parking for many of the other trails are on the road as the shoulders are non existent in many places and deep in others. Gorham is in the process of developing additional parking at the trestle across RT 16 to accommodate the increased usage of the trails on the island.

I think the common thread is they are proactive approaches rather than a punitive reactive approach like ticketing. Ticketing in most occasions is punitive to an individual that probably will never be at that trailhead again. Unless someone publicizes it to the world, no one in the hiking public learns anything to prevent issues in the future, it is just a revenue enhancer for the town and make work for a cop on patrol. I think the reality for most out of town hikers is unlike Ken and NH Climber, they have a plan to go hiking up a certain mountain that popped up on their cell phone as a neat place to go and drove two hours to get there. Even if Ken adds commentary to the next WMG adding parking warnings and alternative parking locations, that sadly is going to miss the vast number of folks who do not even know what the WMG is and if it doesnt pop up on All Trails (or some other purported electronic hiking "guide" they will be clueless.

So, what proactive approach would work at the Kearsage North Trailhead?. Its obviously difficult with two towns sharing different sides of the road. I could not find the Bartlett zoning maps on line so I cannot determine the ownership of the lot but my guess is WMNF as usually the FS has sign at the border with their lands and private land containing a trail. I believe the trail was at one point relocated to the wetlands from the adjacent now developed properies to the east. The north side where the small parking lot is currently is wetlands (no houses) and the south side has houses, so I suspect if folks complain, its the Conway homeowners with frontage on the road.

There was a similar but far more of a parking issue on West side road for Diana's Baths despite the WMNF building a new lot and relocating the trail to it. A few of the neighboring properties on the east side of the road were bought by new owners and substantially renovated and upscaled and no doubt unlike the prior owners it was surprise to see the parking along the road that had existed for decades. Conway's punitive approach was to put up lots of no parking signs and write lots of tickets. And the result was expected, crappy extensive publicity for the town while receiving a revenue boost from parking tickets. I do not believe that things calmed down until some organization assigned parking stewards to maximize the use of the free parking lot. I also suspect that at least locally, fewer establishments recomended to their guests to go there as they didnt like hearing their guests complain about getting a ticket but that is speculation on my part.

Conway was true to form with Kearsage North and put up no parking signage in specific areas but nothing else. It seems to revert to is it assuages the abutters somewhat that "something" is being done but the real net result is new revenue to the town and no actual change. What would it take for some organization to put up and maintain official looking signage indicating the "rules" at Kearsage North parking?. I think Ken's comment about parking at the town water reservoir just up the road is good thing although my limited experience is unless it has been improved and enlarged with the relatively recent water system upgrade in the area is that gets a lot of use from mountain bikers and hikers using the large trail network to the SE and usually was full. The thing is, unless that is posted at the trailhead, few would know so why not put up a sign indicating that there is an alternative place to park?. The same signage also could indicate that those parking along the road in presumably legal locations must have their tires full off the pavement? Practically that is difficult as the road is elevated on the north side with narrow shoulders and the sough side also has narrow shoulders. In both cases this is a proactive approach but my suspicion is it revenue neutral and thus not of interest to the town.