Hanging your food

[Zer0-G]

Ziplocks are a big part of my hiking gear as well. I also reuse Mountainhouse bags to hold any of my wet garbage.

One thing to note is that bears have a very good sense of smell (7x's greater than a bloodhound’s about 1000x's greater than humans) and it is not likely that a ziplock will completely prevent them from smelling the food that is inside. Still it probably helps reduce the range that bears can smell it from.

Zip locks that are found in supermarkets etc ARE NOT ODOR PROOF.
However, Odor Proof Ziplocks are available from various sources.

You can find them on line ....Google - odor proof ziplock

 

[sleeping bear]

First of all, I think the price is dropping, but you have to thing differently.

Plan on a big trip, where they are required and/or where grizzlies are a problem. Now, a trip like this has a lot of expenses: airfare, permits, hotels-en-route, shipping of stove, etc. Simply add the cost of the canister to the trip cost, and it doesn't seem as bad. After the trip, you are left with a free canister!

Spending money is just a perception.

Sheesh, I could use that to justify buying a lot of stuff!
For the record, I've rented canisters in NY, always hang a bear bag, and those few times they were poor I wasn't at a designated campsite. I've never (knock on wood) had any animal get my food. Oops I lied! A racoon lifted the metal box lid on an island near Acadia. We then secured it with a carbiner, but that sure didn't stop him from trying!


As far as the nice traingle (tent- cooking- bear bag) goes, most designated campsites that I've seen aren't set up to make that happen. Although, at Ethan Pond they did have a "cooking area", but we searched and searched and could not find the bear box (hung the food instead).

 

[Zer0-G]

As far as the nice traingle (tent- cooking- bear bag) goes, most designated campsites that I've seen aren't set up to make that happen. Although, at Ethan Pond they did have a "cooking area", but we searched and searched and could not find the bear box (hung the food instead).

Which leads me to the next gripe about this bear bag hanging needing a silly Canister issue.

The problem is made a lot worse by the fact that we let bears become habituated to finding food. That happens largely as a result of the "designated campsites" that most of us all know and love. Personally, I avoid these campsites in areas where people have become a problem. Y'know the people who like to get roused from a well deserved rest by our burly bruin buddies by bungling the bear bag branch bundling.

Hello, 2 plus two and all that....the more these campsites get used, the more the bruins bump up against those pesky problem humans and try to do them a big favor by lightening their loads. Then, of all the absurd things that could happen, those problematic members of the species known as "beerbellius beerswiggerus", aka humans, are ingratious enough to complain about it.



If the bruins like you so much as to enjoy your company and invite themselves into your dining room, and you don't like it, MOVE.

There are no regulations that say you MUST ONLY SLEEP IN DESIGNATED AREAS, At least not in the Cats and Daks. (I don't know much about other places being an east coaster and all that.)

I practice Stealth Camping Techniques, where the site I choose is as far away from designated areas as I can make it. At least 50 percent of the time, I eat dinner about an hour before I find a campsite. Except in Winter. I am much less likely to have an interspecies social call under those circumstances.

 

[rhihn]

Which leads me to the next gripe about this bear bag hanging needing a silly Canister issue.

It's not a silly issue.

The problem is made a lot worse by the fact that we let bears become habituated to finding food. That happens largely as a result of the "designated campsites" that most of us all know and love...
If the bruins like you so much as to enjoy your company and invite themselves into your dining room, and you don't like it, MOVE. ...There are no regulations that say you MUST ONLY SLEEP IN DESIGNATED AREAS, At least not in the Cats and Daks...I practice Stealth Camping Techniques, where the site I choose is as far away from designated areas as I can make it. At least 50 percent of the time, I eat dinner about an hour before I find a campsite. Except in Winter. I am much less likely to have an interspecies social call under those circumstances.

I don't disagree with you that people's carelessness have let bears become habituated, but I think it is unrealistic to expect the majority (all?) hikers to move 150 ft. from roads, trails, water, AND from established campsites (as if 150 feet would solve the problem anyway). Appropriate trees are not always available. Most people are going to have an itinerary, and are going to follow guide books and maps that show campsite locations. That includes places such as Marcy Dam, Colden, etc. Most are not going to eat an hour before they find a campsite. It's easy to say "Don't like the bears? Move!" but new people discover this the hard way EACH DAY. The next day is another person who didn't realize, then another person the next day, and so on. They're not all reading internet bulletin boards, and perhaps nothing more than a guidebook, if that. A ranger once told me to go 1/4 mi. from the campsite to hang food. I did. No bear got it, (though a rodent attacked the bag). I know I was the only person that night who hung food that far away. Bears ransacked the area, including "properly" hung bags.

I think canisters are at least a fair, partial remedy to the issue.

 

[Zer0-G]

It's not a silly issue.

I never said the issue was a silly issue. It's a very serious issue.
If you examine my statement, you will see that I referred to Canisters as silly. Yes, now they are necessary, but it doesn't stop them from being silly.
Canisters are not the issue, it is what transpired that made them a requirement. That is the issue.

Oh , and I also didn't say if you don't like the bears MOVE!

I said and allow me to be more exacting - If you are uncomfortable or find the fact that bears eating your Fritos in the midnight a problem and they are disturbing your midnight dreamfests, please do yourself a favor (and the bear) and find another campsite. (MOVE)

I don't disagree with you that people's carelessness have let bears become habituated,

This is the point.

There have been guidelines in place for many many years to protect the wilderness and wildlife. Leave No Trace and regulations for Bear Country, etc.

If people choose to be careless and take the attitude of "How can you expect me to follow the regulations, they are really an inconvenience" then what we end up with is having to use silly canisters.

but I think it is unrealistic to expect the majority (all?) hikers to move 150 ft. from roads, trails, water, AND from established campsites (as if 150 feet would solve the problem anyway). Appropriate trees are not always available. Most people are going to have an itinerary, and are going to follow guide books and maps that show campsite locations. That includes places such as Marcy Dam, Colden, etc. Most are not going to eat an hour before they find a campsite. It's easy to say "Don't like the bears? Move!" but new people discover this the hard way EACH DAY. The next day is another person who didn't realize, then another person the next day, and so on. They're not all reading internet bulletin boards, and perhaps nothing more than a guidebook, if that. A ranger once told me to go 1/4 mi. from the campsite to hang food. I did. No bear got it, (though a rodent attacked the bag). I know I was the only person that night who hung food that far away. Bears ransacked the area, including "properly" hung bags.

Certainly, my friend and with all due respect, which I am sure you have earned, I Disagree with what you think is unrealistic. I have no problems moving 150 feet in any direction at any time and have always managed a good secure bag hang.

If people are going to choose to be careless and we all just don't care, and the bears are so determined to get their midnight munchies and people as a result of their carelessness continue to put themselves in harms way, well then, how long will it be before they close off Marcy Dam, Colden etc, to public access?

And since when is ignorance a good excuse? When was the last time you told a cop that you didn't know the speed limit was 30 MPH that resulted in you not getting a ticket.
When was the last time you told a bear when he was sniffing your twinkie aroma'd pinky that you didn't know you weren't supposed eat in your tent and have that bear say, oh, so sorry, I'll go away now.

I don't believe this is an easily reversible problem, if it is reversible at all. Whether or not I feel canisters are silly or not, it was carelessness and lack of awareness and peoples choices to disregard the integrity of the wilderness and the fragile pysche of our furry friends whose homes we visit frequently that led up to the dramatic decision to REQUIRE canisters.

And believe me, it was a dramatic decision with many passionate opinions and debates among the powers that be. Pros and Cons.

The issue speaks not about canisters but to our ability to respect the great outdoors.

This is the point, my friend, which I was attempting to make in a very lighthearted way.

I don't expect anyone (or you) to follow my methods, I do what I do to keep away from the popular areas so that I don't become part of the problem, so that I don't contribute my morning oatmeal to the Jones of Mr. Smokey. So, that by sharing my experience, well, you know, someone might like it. Or, obviously not.

And I am not so altruistic. Believe me I have my selfishness guiding me to a degree as I do enjoy the peace and quite of a secluded site as opposed to a high traffic designated campsite. Alas, to each their own.

Oh, and by the way, I do apologize for offending you and getting your hairs up.
I mean no disrespect, absolutely to anyone.
There is nothing wrong with a good debate.

Zer0-G

 

[Steve-o]

I prefer stealth camping also, where allowed.
It's kind of nice to get the "wilderness" experience,away from other campers.
I still question how good my hanging techniques are, though.Sometimes you just have to find the best thing you can, and hope it's still there in the morning. Trying to find a good hang spot, sometimes,becomes much more of a project than it's worth.
A few years ago, in the adk's, I had my first "visual" bear encounter, and if we were'nt near the site this bear would of snagged our food easy,as it knew EXACTLY what it was doing.
The following year, they enforced the cannisters in the eastern high peaks.
So I bought one. And I'll never go back to hanging anywhere.
I guess for piece of mind, if nothing else. I think $80 and 2.6 lbs. is a small price to pay for the hassel that hanging has become.And if they can work out the "bugs" in the cannister construction, it could benefit the safety of everyone.
Or not...

 

[Mark]

One of the risks with a bear bag is that bears are not the only bandits. I put up a bear bag while camping in the 'daks once that I was sure no bear could get. Sure enough, no bear got it, but in the morning I woke to a real mess after a red squirrel had ripped my bag apart. He either jumped onto the bag or shimmied down the line. Unless you hang an Ursack, you still run the risk of losing some or all of your food to rodents.

 

[DougPaul]

Sure enough, no bear got it, but in the morning I woke to a real mess after a red squirrel had ripped my bag apart. He either jumped onto the bag or shimmied down the line. Unless you hang an Ursack, you still run the risk of losing some or all of your food to rodents.

Also check out the ratsack cache bag: http://www.mountaingearnow.com/home.php?type=product&id=50500. Haven't tried one myself, but it looks like it could hold off the smaller critters.

Doug

 

[dvbl]

One of the risks with a bear bag is that bears are not the only bandits. I put up a bear bag while camping in the 'daks once that I was sure no bear could get. Sure enough, no bear got it, but in the morning I woke to a real mess after a red squirrel had ripped my bag apart. He either jumped onto the bag or shimmied down the line. Unless you hang an Ursack, you still run the risk of losing some or all of your food to rodents.

I carry a CD with me for two purposes...first, as a signal mirror...secondly, I use the CD as a way to prevent rodents from shimmying down the line to my food bag. Slide the rope through the CD and secure the CD (knots, carabiner, etc) a few feet above the food bag. May not be perfect, but the CD weighs nothing and it's one more obstacle that they have to overcome. Just thought of something else...it must be wild as they're shimmying down the line and they see their look-alike in the "mirror" coming up at them .

 

[Jeff-B]

One of the risks with a bear bag is that bears are not the only bandits. I put up a bear bag while camping in the 'daks once that I was sure no bear could get. Sure enough, no bear got it, but in the morning I woke to a real mess after a red squirrel had ripped my bag apart. He either jumped onto the bag or shimmied down the line. Unless you hang an Ursack, you still run the risk of losing some or all of your food to rodents.

Don't count on Ursacks to keep bears at bay, maybe OK for small rodents.
Bears will carry off Ursacks to the river, sink them and drink the juice, according to Yosemite Ranger eyewitnesses.
Ursacks are NOT allowed in High Sierra canister regions as a result.

 

[lumberzac]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Ursacks supposed to be tied to the tree trunk and not hung? BTW I see Ursack now has a metal insert that has given it conditional approval in the Sierras.

 

[Jeff-B]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Ursacks supposed to be tied to the tree trunk and not hung? BTW I see Ursack now has a metal insert that has given it conditional approval in the Sierras.

I had posted this website in prior post:

Sierra Approved Bear Canisters



As noted:
"Note: Conditional approval is given to any container that has passed visual inspection, an impact test and a zoo test. Full approval is given to any container that has done the above and has been successful during three months of field-trials in the summer. Either type of approval may be revoked due to unexpected problems in the field that either lead to failures, injuries, or resource damage."

Not ALL areas in the Sierras allow the "Conditionally Approved" decives, in particular, all Yosemite Park areas must use "Approved" canisters ONLY.

Tieing your bag direct to a tree is about as safe as a bear can chew through the line! Maybe a spectra core line could prove worthy enough of a challenge to discourage a bear. I guess that's a chance any Ursack owner could take....
I might try a bike cable lock instead!

But, I would prefer to hang correctly, out of bears reach, regardless of the bag design.
Bottom line, if a bear can get its jaws around the bag, its gone.

Solid shell canisters, however, should not be hung or tied, as the rope used would prove to aid the bear in carrying off the can.

 

[rhihn]

Also check out the ratsack cache bag: http://www.mountaingearnow.com/home.php?type=product&id=50500. Haven't tried one myself, but it looks like it could hold off the smaller critters.

Doug

We used these in a recent trip to the Grand Canyon, where we understand they are becoming increasingly popular. They come in various sizes or can be ordered to a specific size. We had no food problems, but five days in the G.C. is not really enough of a test. As you say, it's for the smaller critters, not bears.

 

[Zer0-G]

Also check out the ratsack cache bag: http://www.mountaingearnow.com/home.php?type=product&id=50500. Haven't tried one myself, but it looks like it could hold off the smaller critters.

Doug

I routinely use my Ursack (Hanging) when rodents may be a problem. Could you offer a comparison between the Ursack and the Ratsack when used for rodent proofing?

Since , so far in my experience, the ursack seems to do the job (for rodents), what could a possible advantage that would be offered by the ratsack?

Any Rodent Horror stories when an Ursack is concerned?