harness recommendation

[Hobbitling]

It's my birthday soonish, and I'm thinking of getting a climbing harness. I'd like to be able to use it for pretty much everything, Gym climbing, outdoor trad climbing, and possibly as an alpine/ice harness.

Basically I'd like to build my "big mountain" skills so that some day I'll be able to move to more technical mountaineering, and I'm trying to build up the necessary gear collection so that I could attempt a trip (probably guided or as part of a mountaineering course) up a "Ranier-ish" mountain, without needing to rent everything. It needs to be reasonably comfortable when taking falls, because I'm very new to climbing, and I expect to be falling a lot. I am an utter noob at climbing, but plan on getting a climbing gym membership (the other half of my B-day present) this winter to force myself to build skills and strength

I'm thinking of the Black Diamond Alpine Bod harness. Any comments? anyone used one before?

also on the "to buy" list are a helmet and ice axe. Maybe for Christmas. I've got crampons and mountaineering boots. anything else I'm forgetting?

 

[Stash]

...I'm very new to climbing, and I expect to be falling a lot.......

.... anything else I'm forgetting?

Advil?

 

[Chip]

I'm thinking of the Black Diamond Alpine Bod harness. Any comments? anyone used one before?

that's what we have and do use it for everything. I fall plenty, and it's fine.

also on the "to buy" list are a helmet and ice axe. Maybe for Christmas. I've got crampons and mountaineering boots. anything else I'm forgetting?

If you're not climbing ice you may not need an ice axe, although it's widely accepted that a man is not a real man unless he carries an axe of some sort. If you're climbing ice, you will need 2 climbing axes. If it's winter skills development, a single, standard straight shaft axe is used for self arrest and such.

 

[erugs]

Not to say you shouldn't buy your own gear, but if you are starting out and will be traveling with a reputable guide company, you may not have to buy everything. You might WANT to, but that's different.

When Brian and I have hired guides those companies have also provided most everything we needed without additional fees. That includes harnesses, climbing rack, helmet, rope on Rainier, Whitney, Hood and the Grand Teton. Brian had to rent pants for his Whitney climb because he thought he could do with something a little less (i.e. lighter) than what they required, so read the gear list carefully.

While I like having my own gear, this has given me the opportunity to try out different types. We would have had to rent things like tents, sleeping bags, packs, and climbing boots, crampons, down parkas, etc. so have purchased those items but will use them anyway on our less extreme adventures that we do by ourselves.

Our guide on Whitney also included the tent, which the guide carried, stove/fuel, and two cooked dinners!

Happy birthday!

 

[Craig]

...also on the "to buy" list are a helmet and ice axe. Maybe for Christmas. I've got crampons and mountaineering boots. anything else I'm forgetting?

...If you're not climbing ice you may not need an ice axe, although it's widely accepted that a man is not a real man unless he carries an axe of some sort..

Let me preempt the enviable next question regarding length.

You'll never go wrong if you're long.

 

[Hampshire]

BD Alpine BOD

Please note that the Alpine BOD does not have a belay loop, which "may" be problematic in a gym or craging. I have the Alpine Bod and use it for roped glacier travel and gully climbs. When top roping ice climbs I use a the BOD which has the belay loop. Both harnesses are light weight (little to no padding) and have drop leg loops which are great.

 

[Hobbitling]

Thanks for the input. maybe the regular bod is a better choice. also more padding. Although as far as the belay loop you can use a small sling for that, right?

I'm not a total winter hiking noob, just no experience with technical or exposed winter mountaineering, which is what I'd like to get into.

Good to know that guided trips include gear. I'm not into buying gear for the sake of "decoration". But a harness is something I have had to borrow or rent repeatedly, and it's time I got my own. Same with the helmet. My rock climbing experiences have been with friends who are experienced, but don't necessarily have gear to spare.

I consider the axe to be somewhat optional. I certainly haven't needed it for any of the winter peakbagging (Adirondack high peaks) I've done so far, but I'd like to try some non/semi-technical slide climbing at some point, and it might be helpful. definitely a straight mountaineering axe for self arrest and belay. if I try any technical ice climbing I'll probably be with a guide, so I'll just use theirs.

 

[tb69wemt]

Anything from BD or Petzl, Mammut, Arc'teryx, etc, etc will suit you fine. The thing with climbing harness is they can be a bit like shoes.....what is great to me may completely suck for you...So try a few on, better yet go to a gym and rent/try out a few different ones. As a new climber dont worry to much about all the bells and whistles, gear loops, rear loops, multiple belay loops, etc, etc find a good one on sale that fits you and your needs. If you are anything like every body else who climbs by the time you get ready to do some "real" climbing and big mountains you will have two or three other harness anyways.
Inevitably you will become a tremendous gear whore and spend all your time and money buying new gear....neglecting your non climbing friends and family...you will stop shaving daily and showering....Are you sure climbing is for you? Maybe you should just ask for a new stove or headlamp...lol

 

[DougPaul]

I'm not a total winter hiking noob, just no experience with technical or exposed winter mountaineering, which is what I'd like to get into.

Just a caution: technical gear is both specialized* and expensive. Try to learn what you want to do and get informed advice before buying. As others have advised, getting some good instruction before buying will also help.

* For instance, there are walking axes, general mountaineering axes, technical axes, north wall hammers, vertical ice tools, etc. (I may be missing a few...)

I also suggest that you learn to rock climb before ice climbing. Many of the techniques are the same or similar (eg rope handling, principles of protection) and are much easier to learn in warm weather (no gloves/mittens) and fewer sharp points (ice tools and crampons) around.

Doug

 

[cbcbd]

...what tb69wemt said.

Having said that these are some good starting all-around harnesses:

BD Momentum AL

Mammut Mirage

Petzl Adjama

What these 3 harnesses have in common that would be useful in the future: Good price, adjustable leg loops (good to have when you are planning on using it with summer and winter clothes), and 4 gear loops - for all your future gear needs.

Other points:
-The BD and the Mammut can both be gotten as packages, which include harness, locking carabiner, belay device, and chalkbag.

-The things you gain from the Alpine Bod are the clip on leg loops, which allows you to more easily put the harness on while wearing crampons, and it packs smaller than others since it has no padding (not as bulky) or belay loop. It weighs the same as the Momentum AL (14oz) so you don't really have any weight savings.

-The only thing you gain from the regular Bod is the clip on leg loops. It weighs more than a Momentum AL (at 17oz). IMO, the clip on leg loops are not that critical - with very little planning you can make sure to put on your harness before getting your crampons on - I don't think I've ever been caught by surprise in the middle of a snow/ice climb needing to put on my harness in a precarious spot.

So...
I am partial to the BD since I like their gear loops (plastic covered) the best and the back leg loops are attached by clips vs a hook. The Mammut has an interesting gear loop configuration that will send the gear in the loop forward - haven't tried it but looks like interesting design. Anyway, those are just personal pickiness.

 

[jfb]

I use a BD Momentum AL. I like the adjustable legs, belay loop and gear loops that come off the bottom of the waistbelt.

 

[J.Dub]

Another +1 for BD harnesses -- I have three. (cough...gear whore...cough)

That being said:

-The Alpine Bod is (go figure) designed for alpine/glacier climbing. It has NO padding, since it's assumed you'd have multiple layers on underneath, so your clothing would provide the padding. Crevasse falls notwithstanding, you probably wouldn't spend much time hanging in it, like you might working a sport route, say. There's no belay loop, as noted above, and the leg loops have buckles so you can put the harness on without having to step through the leg loops. (Though as cbcbd mentioned, it's not THAT hard to remember to put on your harness before your 'pons, unless you're hypoxic in the Death Zone or something...)

-If you're going to be climbing in a gym or otherwise "learning da ropes" you *may* want something with more padding. I know Chip uses his Alpine Bod for everything; me, for ice climbing I actually switched from my Alpine Bod to my Focus harness because it was more comfortable, even though it doesn't have the leg loop buckles.

-Sierra Trading Post often has overstock/previous year's model harnesses for cheap. If you go this route, be sure to look carefully at the gear loops on the BD harnesses. The older style had molded plastic gear loops that stick out horizontally from the waistbelt. I didn't like them as much as the newer tube-covered-webbing style gear loops that hang down more, keeping the rack closer to your body.

IMO, get the harness and helmet now and hold off on the ice axe until you have a big mountain trip planned. Use the ice axe money to buy some rock shoes and get thee to the climbing gym!

 

[TCD]

And, in general, don't spend too much. You have to climb, fall and hang in a harness for a while beffore you know what you like and don't like. This is especially true for shoes, because fit matters so much. Also, you will wear out shoes FAST in the gym, especially as a beginner, becasue you won't be accurate with your feet yet. And shoes are not safety equipment. Get the cheap shoes to start (resoled used rentals, Sierra overstocks, etc.) so you can wear them out, and then buy the shoes you really want.

 

[Hobbitling]

I've got shoes. A pair of Montrail wasabi's from Steap and Cheap. I might have paid $19 for them. I haven't paid full price for gear in a long time.

 

[Chip]

Lots of good info.

If I may hijack this somewhat (but this additional info may help you too); I got the BD Alpine Bod and just got familiar with it, so figured "why screw around and switch seasonally ?". From what I've read the only "danger" is if the harness doesn't fit properly. If it does, you've got a locking biner there anywho, I don't see the advantage of a sewn loop. Perhaps someone could enlighten me/us. thanks.

 

[DougPaul]

(Though as cbcbd mentioned, it's not THAT hard to remember to put on your harness before your 'pons, unless you're hypoxic in the Death Zone or something...)

There is also the unmentioned unmentionable issue of what to do if you have to drop trou to unload while roped up. A harness that allows you to separate or release the leg loops while keeping the waist belt on allows you to stay roped while unloading. Particularly useful for glacier travel (and I suppose, long multi-pitch climbs).

Doug

 

[Craig]

Chip,

There is a growing movement NOT to use the manufactured belay loop for belay/rappel. The fear is the stitching on the loop will wear over time and weaken it.

Folks that have used harnesses for years will tell you the manufacturer advocated its use as described in your link.

I believe Todd Skinner is the most recent death sited by folks advocating against using the belay loop.

 

[nartreb]

As climbing gear goes, harnesses are among the least expensive and least specialized. A basic harness will work fine in any situation.

I'd get one *with* a belay loop. a) many gyms require it; b) you might like it. I use it all the time without hesitation; it's more comfortable when belaying.

Make sure it has room to fit over your winter clothes. Resizable leg loops are not necessary for this, but some people find them more comfortable.

Minor point: take a look at the gear loops. Some are better than others at keeping your gear sorted and hanging in comfortable spots. (Basically, multiple small, stiff loops are better than one or two limp strings.) Even though most of my heaviest gear is on a shoulder strap most of the time, I always have some gear on the harness loop. Of course, you can always make this kind of modification yourself.

 

[DougPaul]

Chip,
There is a growing movement NOT to use the manufactured belay loop for belay/rappel. The fear is the stitching on the loop will wear over time and weaken it.

Folks that have used harnesses for years will tell you the manufacturer advocated its use as described in your link.

I believe Todd Skinner is the most recent death sited by folks advocating against using the belay loop.

I have a Whillans harness which does not have a belay loop. I just clip a locking carabiner through the belt and the rope when hip belaying. If you use a belay plate/device, you could either attach it to the locking biner or a short sling girth-hitched to your harness belt. (Make sure you attach to a strong part of the harness--ie the belt or parallel the attachment to the climbing rope.)

Doug

 

[cbcbd]

If it does, you've got a locking biner there anywho, I don't see the advantage of a sewn loop. Perhaps someone could enlighten me/us. thanks.

Chip, I don't think there's a right or a wrong in any case, but if you're looking at the numbers, the Alpine Bod and the Momentum weigh the same.
But, here are some reasons I like having a belay loop:
1) faster and more convenient to switch to/from a belay -not having to thread a biner through the harness every time
2)Your belay biner doesn't have to be a big HMS biner to fit around the harness - saves weight. - if I was shopping today I'd get one of these
3)Locking off your belay device while belaying is a lot easier (since you begin by feeding a bight of the brake end through the biner)
4)If you are not tying the rope directly through the harness then you need a locking biner in place to hold the harness together- which just adds to the total weight of the harness "system" and that biner could be doing more useful things.
5)Less clutter - even with a belay loop it can get pretty cluttered when you are tied in and have to belay at the same time - especially on a hanging belay where you flake the rope across your lap. Now imagine if you ever climb with double ropes.

...and of course there's that ol' cross-loading potential argument.

And for rappels, I have always rappelled with a sling to extend the device far out. I used to girth hitch the belay loop but now I just girth hitch the tie-in point - and yeah, the Todd Skinner incident was a catalyst and I figured it was worth doing to put less wear on the belay loop.

There is also the unmentioned unmentionable issue of what to do if you have to drop trou to unload while roped up. A harness that allows you to separate or release the leg loops while keeping the waist belt on allows you to stay roped while unloading. Particularly useful for glacier travel (and I suppose, long multi-pitch climbs).

I've had to drop trou on a few occasions with both my Alpine Bod and my BD. With the BD I just unclipped the bungee cord clips from the back of the harness. I think my buddy once (I wasn't looking too close!) just undid his leg loops temporarily for his act.
For this I think that the pants you choose, vs the harness leg configuration, are a lot more key. My bibs (no longer made, EMS Expedition) have a "moon/rainbow/through the crotch" zip that goes from my chest all the way back to my lumbar - it has 4 zippers on it so you can choose where to open up a "convenience hole" - Arcteryx, Mountain Hardwear. Some pants also come with a drop seat - Cloudveil, Marmot, Patagonia, Arcteryx. There aren't many pants of this kind out there, but they are very useful!

Although I think that when the time comes, "nature will find a way"... and quick